Ammonia alert badge and cycle time.

[RyanCSGO]

How much do you trust these seachem ammonia alert badges?

So I filled up my tank a while back with cycled "reel reef rock" the seam separated and all the water dumped on the floor.
the last thing on my mind was proper storage of the rock. I set it on a shelf in my fish closet and thats where it sat for about 4 weeks until the replacement tank came back.

what i find interesting is that my tank is currently showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and less than 5ppm nitrate.

how could this be possible.... the rock sat dry for a month. i used 2 new bags of live sand and added a bio digest. (same stuff I always use.)

 

[brandon429]

what ammonia source have you used to challenge the system?

ammonia tracing posts are fun its my most fav molecule to work with though im a horrible chemist due to skipping the classes to shoot pool

 

[RyanCSGO]

what ammonia source have you used to challenge the system?

ammonia tracing posts are fun its my most fav molecule to work with though im a horrible chemist due to skipping the classes to shoot pool

Dr Tims ammonia chloride. first time ever using this product as well.

tsk tsk, skipping classes

 

[Mike N]

I've heard that when out of water the bacteria on the "real reef rock" goes dormant, doesnt die.
Therefore, no die off creating ammonia.

 

[RyanCSGO]

I've heard that when out of water the bacteria on the "real reef rock" goes dormant, doesnt die.
Therefore, no die off creating ammonia.

I heard the same as well, but figured it was a sham. What would make the bacteria on reef rock so special that there was no die off...

 

[Mike N]

What would make the bacteria on reef rock so special that there was no die off...

Good question, I'd love to know the answer as well.
Have you cross checked the ammonia with an API or some other kit?

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

I want to see if any aspect of your thread causes edits or changes in that one. we're trying to compile a microbiology rambling link reference there for all things cycling. Ill link to that thread as this one develops, nice testing post you have here.

highlights: true desiccation is claimed there to be a bac limiter, 4 weeks in air sure might do it.

That RRR is not porous and holey like Tonga, harder for them to hide in wet respite

I predict that should have stressed them, so we'd move to post #6 the cycling completion test

you got the ammonia to 1 ppm verified (beyond the badge) and then tested in 24 hours and got zero? amazing, guess it means they hid

RRR site shows that these are shipped wet cured, not dry. Caribsea sells the dry type with a painted on glaze including nitrifiers, then theres a short rehydration ramp up time before they kick in

yours seems instant

confounds to watch out for, from that thread:

testing error/verifying all ammonia readings since they're low levels during the digestion test

try to get or borrow some salifert ammonia if poss!

 

[RyanCSGO]

tank filled on 7/26/2017 in the evening.

7/28/2017 added bio digest
7/31/2017 added dr tims, hours later confirmed 1ppm using both salifert and api as secondary
8/1/2017 added alert badge
8/2/2017 badge reads zero, salifert read zero. didn't cross check with api becuase well, its api. nitrates are in the 0-5ppm range per API.

regardless of the testing i refuse to add anything into the tank for a while. i just thought these numbers were rather strange so soon, especially considering the rock dried out

 

[brandon429]

Your rock might really hold some neat clues about holdover characters in nitrifiers.

There's a couple more easy test changes I'd love to know since you're armed with salifert yay

Somewhere near the last page we have a post of Google scholar article links describing why bacteria tolerate emersion periods

But four weeks I'd have lost the bet just from guessing

None of those links put a timeline on max out of water, things vary setting to setting we know. I guess you just found out a month is possible, plus it's not like they were baking in sun whole time

I really hope we can see a side test later on as things develop, then that stamps your thread as the longest emersion I've ever seen for nitrifiers to pass a digestion test. Neat!

My personal favorite arrangement would be to take out one rock and digest test it in a bucket or vase setup using all new water and same levels/verifications

When it passes again, put back exact same shelf one more month and retest in the pico concentrations, I'm assuming it will pass again.

I'd then take same rock and bake it in the oven low heat hours and hours or anything you can do to ensure true true drying

Chem baths will work/bleaching and cleaning

Then lastly, digest test the rock known to pass two emersion tests in a row but is now free of nitrifiers by force... if it fails digest test then after these confirmations that's worth getting a tattoo or something to commemorate. Longest emersion documented for nitrifiers at least in aquaria

 

[mckinney0171]

those badges are garbage. never got one to read ammonia at all yet it shows up on a test kit.

 

[RyanCSGO]

Your rock might really hold some neat clues about holdover characters in nitrifiers.

There's a couple more easy test changes I'd love to know since you're armed with salifert yay

Somewhere near the last page we have a post of Google scholar article links describing why bacteria tolerate emersion periods

But four weeks I'd have lost the bet just from guessing

None of those links put a timeline on max out of water, things vary setting to setting we know. I guess you just found out a month is possible, plus it's not like they were baking in sun whole time

I really hope we can see a side test later on as things develop, then that stamps your thread as the longest emersion I've ever seen for nitrifiers to pass a digestion test. Neat!

My personal favorite arrangement would be to take out one rock and digest test it in a bucket or vase setup using all new water and same levels/verifications

When it passes again, put back exact same shelf one more month and retest in the pico concentrations, I'm assuming it will pass again.

I'd then take same rock and bake it in the oven low heat hours and hours or anything you can do to ensure true true drying

Chem baths will work/bleaching and cleaning

Then lastly, digest test the rock known to pass two emersion tests in a row but is now free of nitrifiers by force... if it fails digest test then after these confirmations that's worth getting a tattoo or something to commemorate. Longest emersion documented for nitrifiers at least in aquaria

I will see about working something out. currently the two rock piles i have in the tank are connected. So I don't have an available piece to remove and test with.
what may be an option though, is to grab a small say 3-4 lb piece from my LFS to stick in my sump for say 4-6 weeks, then pull it and start the pico test process.
would be interesting to see the outcome. Would be genuinely surprised if this did prove that the rock could sit on the shelf for that long and still be "live/cured"

If I can grab a piece this weekend. ill document the process and keep you in the loop.

 

[brandon429]

truly its a neat event. you will see in these posts we all pretty much re invent the wheel but 30 days emersion and passing a digestion test simply isn't shown in any reefing print anywhere ever ~ that was pretty sick you had all the confirming tests ready to go, Im skeptical right up until we go salifert.

for bacteria to pass an emersion test is not a surprise, but man I was thinking like 4 days max, glad to see boundaries pressed for sure. I do believe this is possible. our whole thread is just trying to convince people that bacteria are the first to come, last to go, all the time. that's really being shown here so far. they're the toughest group of organisms we keep, so they should be able to jump through a few hoops on command. my own test of the matter will be a poor follow up, i had been planning to drain my whole reef on cam for 25 mins straight, entire reef empty and corals hanging, and then refill it/next day posts to show emersion and pods/worms etc who ride tidal events just fine. 30 days w make that look lame now thx heh

nobody would expect a worm to hold up 30 days, but that's past the point id have given bacteria and I was their strong advocate there. that's so neat to see the boundary extended for us all likely. not being outside in the sun helped!! this thread is now post 136 for us there, locked in time nice nice post.