Ammonia keeps climbing?

[brandon429]

then you just added an api testing dimension to these readouts, where you read/photo the test matters.

that means in all fairness at least 90% of all posters using api would feel better running the test in a different room, my gosh, only seneye saved us from total madness here he he

Thanks for creating my favorite ammonia tracking thread of all time. if you can dunk from the freethrow line too we'd like the gif of it

 

[TCoach]

Ok, went into bathroom for quick picture under better lights.

 

[JCM]

I agree. Initially one of those semi-stressful events, but visual reality not matching expectations given the supposed levels. Now helping @brandon429 in his quest to understand these bad readings.

The visual reality always gets final say in my opinion.

 

[TCoach]

if you can dunk from the freethrow line too we'd like the gif of it

Sorry, white fish guys can't dunk!

 

[JCM]

Not that I like or trust API tests, but I think you're supposed to hold the vile away from the card so light enters the back side. Holding it against the card makes it darker than intended.

 

[brandon429]

I like how the fourth pic on the same sample is literally worst of all. 10/10 thread.


state of the hobby in ammonia testing:

api-your tank is already dead you just don't know it yet.


seneye; your tank nearly died


tank pics: feed me, I want more.

 

[Suohhen]

So let me see if I have this straight. The tank has been up for 1 week started with 16 yo live rock? Also the highest reading was .05ppm? Is that the unit of measure? The Api test is obv untrustworthy but did you dose anything when you set up the tank or did the big water change such as prime?

 

[TCoach]

So let me see if I have this straight. The tank has been up for 1 week started with 16 yo live rock? Also the highest reading was .05ppm? Is that the unit of measure? The Api test is obv untrustworthy but did you dose anything when you set up the tank or did the big water change such as prime?

16 year old tank. See build thread. Did rip clean move a week ago.

 

[Suohhen]

16 year old tank. See build thread. Did rip clean move a week ago.

Ah ok, sorry the 'just adopted' part was confusing to me. What was your process for the rip clean?

 

[brandon429]

whats neat about the current tank also incorporating new vs old cycling rules is even if we decided your tank was in real distress, adding more bottled bac could not help you'd have to add more surface area for wastewater contact.

adding bottle bac into suspension wouldn't help with ongoing surface area shortcomings, being too low on surface area is like having too few/functioning renal cells within an animal's kidneys-lack thereof takes about a day or less to manifest.

any day you check this reef, she'll be reefin'. your tank has excellent kidneys.


here's kidney loss in a reef tank

EMERGENCY - Tank REcyling

So I went away for the weekend only to return to a cloudy tank, come to find out a fish had died while I was gone, when I got back my water was cloudy and my ammonia was sky high, my corals were all closed up and some have melted, I have been dosing bacteria and am guard every day and doing 10...

www.reef2reef.com

see how fast the onset is, and its totality in the system

 

[Suohhen]

16 year old tank. See build thread. Did rip clean move a week ago.

Okay if your intent on referring to the build thread. Here is what you have listed, you completely rinsed the sand and used fresh salt water to rinse the rocks? The move was only 10 min so there was no significant time out of the water? I know it seems stubborn but I feel this kind of information needs to be included in the topic thread so everyone is clear. I appreciate that you made a new thread about this transfer with clear details but not everyone does that and often you have to dig through pages and pages to find any detail. Regardless the first thing I would be concerned about is fish health. In my experience the more established a fish the more likely that any change at all in its environment will cause major stress. I could be wrong, but that is my experience. So are 100 percent of your fish accounted for? Ofc you can never trust ammonia testing over what your seeing but the tests by the senseye are not indicating toxic levels, merely stressful levels, at least if that is in ppm.

 

[TCoach]

Everyone still happy. Was even able to get a semi picture of my CBS. I really hate false readings, especially from higher quality instruments!

 

[brandon429]

it may be a superdetection. the fact its not stuck is key movement imo, really hard to know if a small bit landed/adhered to the probe who knows. but one thing is for sure, if that trends back down to thousandths we're set and it was a legit spike just never harmful and of the kind reef tanks can absorb. curious, what were pre-rise levels did you ever hit and maintain thousandths ppm daily average even with feeding, before this rise event?

those little clam pieces can't leak/overcome natural filtration for days on end it'll have to reach steady-state soon per the rule of active surface area control post-cycle

if your meter holds in the hundredths too many more days Ill think its a calibration issue, on a very sensitive meter, very good potential still that's a good setup. the ways they have to trim settings in our troubleshoot thread seems tedious; some initial measure issues aren't so bad given at least it can be tuned. some folks don't like seneye or believe its an accurate nh3 picture given the intricacies of pH and salinity temp etc but the hobby simply has nothing else to offer above it.


the degree that a tuned seneye supports predictions made about ammonia years before digital measure was avail is specifically why I like it so much.

if, when benchmarked against whatever meter in 2025 will be digital, seneye shows to have a bottom-end degree of error I bet its ability to indicate change (when trimmed) shows to be remarkable in time. and I bet the basal numbers are darn close to 2025's best machine, now the prediction is stamped in time.

 

[TCoach]

Here is the only other “spike”. It was during the tank setup. Looks like we got ~.014 but it went down very quickly. (There is a 0.036, but looks like a FP reading). It went from 0.014 to 0.001 in ~4hr.

 

[Suohhen]

Looking good. I know these things can be stressful, I don't mean to pile on and my responses have more to do with the tenner the conversation tends to take when it comes to these stigmatized topics. The health of your animals is the only thing here that matters and know that I am pulling for you!

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I agree. Initially one of those semi-stressful events, but visual reality not matching expectations given the supposed levels. Now helping @brandon429 in his quest to understand these bad readings.

I guess I still don't understand why you are sure your Seneye readings were false. Your NH3 never reached higher than 0.056ppm. I'm not 100% sure, but I wouldn't think that level would cause an issue. Corals actually like a little ammonia for food. Even your other test showed ammonia in the tank. Seneye states that your highest reading bordered on the alert to alarm range and not even close to toxic. Most of the readings posted were in the alert range. I would not think that is abnormal for the tank transfer you did.

So, why do you think the Seneye is in error?

 

[brandon429]

nice call. I thought I saw tenths reached here, nice call if hundredths/additional detailing. very helpful.

*I base accuracy on where the meter lands back down pretty soon/already. if still in the hundredths or down to .001 that seems not trimmed yet. (.001 is too low for a running and fed and stocked reef tank, they're above that in all seneye comparison threads but still below .009)

 

[TCoach]

I guess I still don't understand why you are sure your Seneye readings were false. Your NH3 never reached higher than 0.056ppm. I'm not 100% sure, but I wouldn't think that level would cause an issue. Corals actually like a little ammonia for food. Even your other test showed ammonia in the tank. Seneye states that your highest reading bordered on the alert to alarm range and not even close to toxic. Most of the readings posted were in the alert range. I would not think that is abnormal for the tank transfer you did.

So, why do you think the Seneye is in error?

I guess based on all the talk, I was expecting the alarm at .050 to be very threatening to the fish. Seeing the number start to rise and really climb just set off my fish protection instinct.

I guess I also inferred from some of the comments that we had a FP issue too.

 

[brandon429]

great thread overall went so smooth very sharp documentation

 

[TCoach]

@brandon429 - Here is some interesting data analytics from my Seneye data.

Assumptions -
1. All data is valid
2. Reef ammonia consumption is consistent

1. Initial spike during move to 0.014 was consumed in 240 minutes or 0.000054 ppm/min consumption.

2. First spike at 4/24/2021 2:32 AM to 4/24/2021 12:02 PM rose 0.016ppm or .000082 ppm/min a net of .000028 ppm/min rise (total rise - initial spike consumption or 0.000082 - 0.000054)

3. Big spike from 4/24/2021 2:02 PM to 4/25/2021 1:47 PM rose from 0.017 to 0.056 or again .000082 ppm/min with a net of .000028 ppm/min.

Did 25% water change and added 2 powerbeads to flush left over "live" food.

4. Long slow drop: repeat at 04/25/2021 08:29pm @ 0.51ppm to 04/26/2021 9:02 PM @ 0.014 or an average drop of 0.000025 ppm/min. Given that the reef can consume 0.000054 ppm/min, I'm still having 0.000029ppm of Ammonia being produced somewhere. (0.000054 ppm - 0.000025 ppm).

So, my reef in it's current state can consume 0.000054 ppm/min post RIP clean and move. Do you think this sounds normal? Would be interesting to do a more controlled experiment to confirm once the NH3 levels return to normal. Does this tell you anything about the condition of the reef? Do you have any comparison numbers?

Right now, I'm back to flake feed only (what prior owner fed), so what ever is stuck in the reef can finish being processed w/o any additions. However, I do want to get back to live/fresh frozen food to help build up the immunity of my guys and keep heading towards a PaulB type longevity reef.