Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate Spike with PH drop

[DNZ]

Hey All,

Some input would be helpful here as to my thoughts of cause.

Tank: 4 months old

20gallon AIO nano with skimmer, carbon, small amount of rowaphos as phosphate was over 1 a couple weeks ago

Stock:

fish
2 clowns

cuc
2 hermits
1 Trochus
2 Nassarius (1 baby which appeared a few weeks ago)

Coral

Kenya
Toadstool
Zoas
GSP
Xenia


Chemistry 3 days ago

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0.20
Alk 9
Phosphate 0.06
PH: 8.2
Temp 25.1-.3 depending on time of day
Salinity 1.025

Small amount of diatoms on sand and enough on 1 zoa frag to annoy them in to staying cloased until cleaned

Chemistry today: Note everything looks totally fine, corals out as normal, if anything they are more out than normal (sign??)

Ammonia: 0.2
Nitrite: 0.30
Nitrate: 0.40
PH 7.4
Alk: 8.2
Phosphate 0.08
Temp atm 25.2
Salinity 1.025

Small amount of diatoms still exist

Just done 5 gallon change, running ro water to do another 5 g after work

So what has happened in last couple of days..... well i added a wave maker, a Jecod DMP5 running sine mode at 60% running in opposite flow direction from output nozzle. TBH it did seem to bring up quite a bit of crap from behind rock work

Assumption: this crap has spiked ammonia, however I am trying to understand why it would be ammonia in first place, would detritus build up not convert from ammonia in any form or just extremely slowly without flow or should it already by in a nitrite/nitrate build up and would be more likely to see those spike without ammonia.

I think i am doing the right things to handle it, mostly interested in why ammonia, also if this is a common experience for those adding a wave maker or even a new one to existing setups that already have them.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Dan_P]

Hey All,

Some input would be helpful here as to my thoughts of cause.

Tank: 4 months old

20gallon AIO nano with skimmer, carbon, small amount of rowaphos as phosphate was over 1 a couple weeks ago

Stock:

fish
2 clowns

cuc
2 hermits
1 Trochus
2 Nassarius (1 baby which appeared a few weeks ago)

Coral

Kenya
Toadstool
Zoas
GSP
Xenia


Chemistry 3 days ago

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0.20
Alk 9
Phosphate 0.06
PH: 8.2
Temp 25.1-.3 depending on time of day
Salinity 1.025

Small amount of diatoms on sand and enough on 1 zoa frag to annoy them in to staying cloased until cleaned

Chemistry today: Note everything looks totally fine, corals out as normal, if anything they are more out than normal (sign??)

Ammonia: 0.2
Nitrite: 0.30
Nitrate: 0.40
PH 7.4
Alk: 8.2
Phosphate 0.08
Temp atm 25.2
Salinity 1.025

Small amount of diatoms still exist

Just done 5 gallon change, running ro water to do another 5 g after work

So what has happened in last couple of days..... well i added a wave maker, a Jecod DMP5 running sine mode at 60% running in opposite flow direction from output nozzle. TBH it did seem to bring up quite a bit of crap from behind rock work

Assumption: this crap has spiked ammonia, however I am trying to understand why it would be ammonia in first place, would detritus build up not convert from ammonia in any form or just extremely slowly without flow or should it already by in a nitrite/nitrate build up and would be more likely to see those spike without ammonia.

I think i am doing the right things to handle it, mostly interested in why ammonia, also if this is a common experience for those adding a wave maker or even a new one to existing setups that already have them.

Thanks

Chris

A 0.2 ppm increase in total ammonia represents a much smaller increase in free, or unionized, ammonia. So, no danger yet.

The ammonia test can give a positive result in the presence of other basic nitrogen bearing molecules, such as amino acids. Maybe what you observed was not an increase in ammonia or only a partial increase.

Maybe the increased circulation increased the rate of digestion of solid organic matter which could increase the amount of dissolved waste like ammonia and organic amines.

 

[DNZ]

interesting, thanks Dan.... would this likely continue or would i expect to see a drop... ie am i at the early stage of another cycle... should i keep water changing or just wait until it goes above certain levels.

After a total of 8g yesterday the ph is back to normal but ammonia and nitrite are only slightly better... unsure if thata ctually worse due to ph effect on ammonia at higher levels

 

[EnterName]

The ammonia oxidizing bacteria grow relatively fast in contrast to the nitrite oxidizing ones, so you should see a drop in ammonia levels soon. I would personally still try to get levels down through water changes if ammonia doesn't move or even increases.

Here is what Randy said about ammonia toxicity back in 2007:

"My suggestion is to take some sort of corrective action if the total ammonia rises above 0.1 ppm. This suggestion is also made by Stephen Spotte in his authoritative text, Captive Seawater Fishes.6 Values in excess of 0.25 ppm total ammonia may require immediate treatment, preferably involving removal of all delicate (ammonia sensitive) organisms from the water containing the ammonia." (Source: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php#15)

0.1ppm - 0.2ppm total ammonia are frequently reached by people who try out ammonia dosing, so Dan is absolutely right saying it probably won't cause much damage. However, it's always about ammonia levels and time of exposure. If your ammonia levels don't budge you might want to help out. Doing nothing most likely won't cause any deaths, but just as Randy said:

"Concentrations of ammonia that are not acutely lethal can still cause significant problems for fish. Salmon in seawater at pH 7.8, for example, show changes in white blood cells and various blood chemicals, and were more prone to disease, when exposed to sublethal concentrations of ammonia." (same source as above)

In other words: Relax, you will probably not loose anything if ammonia levels don't increase further, but ensuring they don't rise higher and reducing the overall time of exposure will be the healthier option for your tank inhabitants :)

 

[DNZ]

nice thanks, have new water ready encase i need it and will just keep tacking levels, hopefully go back to normal soon.

I had been hoping to add another fish this week due to local tmc order arriving but will just wait now till the new year

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think all those results are on the margins of typical kit accuracy, and are insignificant in terms of problem if accurate, so I personally would not spend much effort trying to explain it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

nice thanks, have new water ready encase i need it and will just keep tacking levels, hopefully go back to normal soon.

I had been hoping to add another fish this week due to local tmc order arriving but will just wait now till the new year

Why wait? Nothing you note is any concern.