ammonia spike (please help)

[brandon429]

ok for this thread we want to take specific steps,
we are *opposite* of any other thread you'll read or post in.


Here's first rule so that your tank is presented in a clear manner unique to our presentation and analysis.

From this point on, no more test readings of any type, none, keep them private. You can still report them in the facebook posts/other places but here, keep that info at bay for now we've covered current test issues in prior posts. we can compare final outcomes in a week to our visual control method to the common method which is you buying something from a pet store in response.

if your tester shows ammonia in your water you were already using that kept this shrimp, then keep those unposted.

if your current reef shows nitrite keep that unposted, no params. that's the challenge, that's the problem actually.

From here on out we only monitor your tank by pic updates. The very next step is let me know when you can do a basic water change, on the current water you've already been using, that held this shrimp, before his grinding.

in this thread we're holding course with no more testing, using intuit from what we can plainly see to assess the presence of the most destructive metabolic compound your reef can encounter. do one more 30% or so water change. match temp and salinity only in the params. If you have dimmable lights, you can see a recurring theme in all our challenge posts is the keeper reduces light intensity a few days, this helps ease corals back into play vs sunburn mode through all challenges.

 

[dedragon]

is the unit an ro unit or rodi? what is the tds water coming out of the unit, seems off it has even a little ammonia in it

 

[andiesreef]

rodi. i don't have a tds meter unfortunately

 

[dhnguyen]

Wait what? Why are you adding dechlorinator into your RO/DI water? There shouldn't be any chlorine or chloramine in it at all if your RO/DI filter i working properly. Even just RO water...

I would advise you to get yourself a TDS meter, they're not expensive. Source water is one of the most important things in this hobby and it's also one of the cheapest. Why not just do it right from the get go?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Water changes are indeed important in maintaining the proper water quality in an aquarium.
They will help lower the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate levels in the aquarium water and keep the fish healthy. Some people make the mistake of performing a partial water change in a marine tank to reduce ammonia levels during the cycling process. Normally, when ammonia levels go up, the pH drops at the same time. By performing a partial water change, the total ammonia levels may drop slightly, but the pH will also rise (the buffering effect of new saltwater), increasing the toxicity of the remaining ammonia. A safer method to reduce the ammonia levels would be to use an ammonia neutralizing product such as Prime or Amquel, then perform a water change to freshen the water. The ammonia neutralizing products bind ammonia into a non-toxic form until they are broken down by the bacteria in the biofilter, or removed through water changes.
Death of a single shrimp will likely not cause this spike. Overstocking, overfeeding, poor filtration or all of these can however cause a spike.

 

[brandon429]

As long as we’re managing by visual pics and not posted params I’m fine with anyone’s assessment. Most posts are a hodgepodge mix of ideas but every tank here will be assessed from the assumption its ammonia is under control, because delicate animals lived before this grinding event.


and because not one pic here matches the null condition you state. That condition doesn’t occur but it’s ok to post your take on free ammonia control. In this thread we can all plainly see it’s controlled, fish don’t act normally and snails don’t live day to day in uncontrolled ammonia. No reefs meet the condition you state, and any links you can make for the matter already fit a pattern linked here and we are barely at two pages. Imagine when fifty pages of pics all line up.

 

[andiesreef]

Wait what? Why are you adding dechlorinator into your RO/DI water? There shouldn't be any chlorine or chloramine in it at all if your RO/DI filter i working properly. Even just RO water...

I would advise you to get yourself a TDS meter, they're not expensive. Source water is one of the most important things in this hobby and it's also one of the cheapest. Why not just do it right from the get go?

i totally agree with you. i bought the RODI unit trying to get the best quality of water possible a few months ago. it worked fine to begin with, no ammonia, healthy livestock, nothing. and then this happened. i assume there must be something wrong with the unit? i want the best quality water possible and will look into a TDS meter. how am i supposed to find the problem with my unit? i agree that no chlorine is a necessity and not what i paid for at all.

 

[dedragon]

agreed ammonia will be toxic, i use fritzyme 9 because im pretty sure it binds ammonia and also has bacteria to speed up the cycle, i dont think the cycle is done yet. I think water change asap first though and then immediate addition of the fritzyme so you arent taking it out with the water change

 

[andiesreef]

Water changes are indeed important in maintaining the proper water quality in an aquarium.
They will help lower the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate levels in the aquarium water and keep the fish healthy. Some people make the mistake of performing a partial water change in a marine tank to reduce ammonia levels during the cycling process. Normally, when ammonia levels go up, the pH drops at the same time. By performing a partial water change, the total ammonia levels may drop slightly, but the pH will also rise (the buffering effect of new saltwater), increasing the toxicity of the remaining ammonia. A safer method to reduce the ammonia levels would be to use an ammonia neutralizing product such as Prime or Amquel, then perform a water change to freshen the water. The ammonia neutralizing products bind ammonia into a non-toxic form until they are broken down by the bacteria in the biofilter, or removed through water changes.
Death of a single shrimp will likely not cause this spike. Overstocking, overfeeding, poor filtration or all of these can however cause a spike.

thank you for your input. i figured out it was my RODI unit producing chlorinated water that caused a false reading. i dechlorinated the water and am looking into the problem now.

 

[andiesreef]

agreed ammonia will be toxic, i use fritzyme 9 because im pretty sure it binds ammonia and also has bacteria to speed up the cycle, i dont think the cycle is done yet. I think water change asap first though and then immediate addition of the fritzyme so you arent taking it out with the water change

i figured out it was a faulty RODI unit causing the problem :/

 

[dedragon]

you may need to check your tap water source via government website to find out if they use chloramines in your water

 

[dedragon]

can we get a pic of the rodi unit to check it out. I personally use the brs value 4 stage and a tds pen because the tap water doesnt use chloramines and tests at 180 tds, 0 tds out of my rodi of course

 

[brandon429]

You wouldn’t be willingly drinking ammonia well water it would smell.


team, remember the google search results for api ammonia accuracy


those didn’t just go away because someone posted somethin

this is like every ammonia misread post ever made on the internet.


remember the rule, post cycle reefs control their ammonia and we make counter points here using work threads with some proofs on the line, before assuming free ammonia is in challenge here show your studies or patterns or single links. Make a work thread to test new claims, before posting them here. We are underway using a different method.

 

[dedragon]

brandon your definitely right, api sucks. just always good to make sure they arent using chloramines just in case and a tds meter never hurt anyone

 

[andiesreef]

can we get a pic of the rodi unit to check it out. I personally use the brs value 4 stage and a tds pen because the tap water doesnt use chloramines and tests at 180 tds, 0 tds out of my rodi of course

if chloramines are used, as i assume they are, should i use a dechlorinator? also, just ordered a TDS reader so nothing like this happens again. it was way too close for comfort!

edit: i use the RO buddy unit. can't get a pic right now though.

 

[brandon429]

Back to pics,

post a recent updated aquarium shot and show the fish clearly in its position. This isn’t a params thread post chloramines updates in the chem forum, tank pics are all we use.

in the chem forum, you can talk about how your ro and di and ammonia interplayed

but not here, pics. Nobody without a work thread is bringing in new direction we operate from the total assumption the happy pics about to be shown indicate controlled ammonia


*but what if some is input, via bad well water, surely it’s compounding**

no. Because you arent drinking more ammonia than the dosers from post #19 are adding as cycling ammonia into running reefs and tracking it with seneye, this reef here can handle some ammonia, it’s been carrying bioload and they LIVED so far, that means ammonia can be handled like a shock absorber when needed.
even if a fish died it resolves overnite. Ammonia does not stick for days, we have seneye tanks tracking dead fish and nobody here is speaking in seneye links.

no changing the rule flippantly, this tank is misreading until pics show otherwise.

 

[dedragon]

if you do find out you have chloramines in the water, (you can usually google search: town name and tap water readout to find it) i think you can add on this just make sure you have the correct fitting size (push connect fitting) and put in a chloramine carbon block

 

[andiesreef]

Back to pics,

post a recent updated aquarium shot and show the fish clearly in its position. This isn’t a params thread post chloramines updates in the chem forum, tank pics are all we use.

in the chem forum, you can talk about how your ro and di and ammonia interplayed

but not here, pics

i unfortunately can't post any more pictures today as the tank is totally dark and i want to leave everything alone for a little bit. last i checked though, my royal gramma was in his usual sleeping/resting place among the rock, copepods were coming out on the back glass for the night, the snails and crabs were crawling around the rock, and the shrimp were feeding on leftover fish food.

as for corals, i can give a description of each one as i last saw them for now and more pics in the morning:
zoas - opening back up slowly
gsp - closing as they usually do at night
ricordea + rhodactis mushrooms - puffing up slightly to normal size
acan - shrunken into itself
clove polyps - seeming to open back up
leather - uncurling itself

also if you don't mind me asking, is there a thread where i can talk in more detail about chemistry and things beyond visual observation? i didn't realize this was a thread that totally excluded parameters from conversations.

 

[andiesreef]

if you do find out you have chloramines in the water, (you can usually google search: town name and tap water readout to find it) i think you can add on this just make sure you have the correct fitting size (push connect fitting) and put in a chloramine carbon block

thank you. would dechlorinator be enough to get me by for a little bit though?

 

[brandon429]

You’ll need to start a chem forum thread, let the record reflect before you leave to trace ammonia by params that even your description shows controlled ammonia. You’d be reporting marked losses if you had no ammonia control, therefore nothing is wrong with your water, because all this is based on a test read that doesn’t line up with pictures and ongoing daily description.

Thanks for the initial post for sure.