Ammonia spike unknown source

[WeekendShepherd]

Please help!

I have a 60 gallon AIO with sock filters and a protein skimmer. It has been running for about 7 months now.

Over this week I noticed my corals (mixed reef) not doing great- polyps shrunken, staying closed up, etc. so Friday night I decided to test everything.

While my main elements were low, the most alarming result was my ammonia. On the API test it looked like 4ppm+. Immediately I dosed prime, then did a 15gallon water change. Saturday I took a sample to my LFS and had them test it just in case my test kit was wrong, but their test came back as 3.9ppm. I changed out a total of 25 gallons Saturday after that reading. I checked my source water and that is ammonia free, so it’s something in the tank. The only thing is- my fish are acting fine. No one has died, I counted all of them, and I don’t see any dead snails and such that could be causing it.

I took these tests this morning and when I got home from work today and it looks like it’s gone up again! The 1ppm was from this morning, and the one that looks like 2ppm is from now. Please, any help would be appreciated, I have no idea what’s going on and don’t want to lose anybody.

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

How is the flow in the tank? I'm looking at the large rock on the right. Do you have adequate circulation behind it, or is that back corner a detritus-collecting dead spot?

 

[Hypothetical]

I know someone is going to swoop into this thread and proclaim that API tests are garbage, and you can't trust the results. I am not one of those people, I think their ammonia test kit is largely fine, if not a bit quirky sometimes.

But that said, let's be sure that your test kits are not expired and the results are indeed accurate

I'm glad you've changed

 

[Fish Fan]

I'm glad you've changed

Changed what? I've never been anti-API

 

[MichaelReefer]

Kinda weird thought, but did you try testing your water change water? On a well or something and something died or fell in? That's a substantial spike for a smaller tank. Did you check in the back of your AIO? Maybe stirred up waste that was in it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well exactly, I don’t know what caused the spike. I’ve been doing large water changes every day, but between that I’ve been using prime so the livestock don’t die and make the issue worse.

Repeating, and perhaps clarifing, the Prime does nothing useful IMO.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Are there any fish is this tank?

Are you feeding it?

 

[WeekendShepherd]

@WeekendShepherd
Your sandbed surface looks nice & clean. Depth looks to be 1” deep. If you stirred it, what would it look like.

What does skimmate from foam fractionator look like? Has it changed in volume, color or smell?

In my 30 year mature display, I lightly stir sand to feed filter feeders. Substrate is 2” deep with a plenum and reverse flow to keep it oxygenated.

PS: Also, provide parameters of alkalinity & phosphate

I’m not sure what you mean by if I stirred the sand around, I think it’d just look like the top.

Skim is dark, mostly a dry skim I think. I just emptied the cup and it had detritus/solids build up that I washed off. Not any particularly foul smell, just normal waste smell.

My phosphate was high when the fish store tested it, it was 0.7, and my Kh was 119ppm.

 

[WeekendShepherd]

Are there any fish is this tank?

Are you feeding it?

Yes, it’s a fully stocked tank. I have:
2 occelaris clown
1 yellow banded possum wrasse
1 YWG and pistol pair
1 engineer goby
1 carpenters wrasse
1 exquisite fairy wrasse
1 long nose hawk fish

I fed them last night, 2 cubes of frozen food, but prior to had stopped feeding for 48 hours trying to deal with this.

 

[Hypothetical]

Changed what? I've never been anti-API

Friend never is a hard statement to hold up

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-opinion-assistance.1108593/post-13525201

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes, it’s a fully stocked tank. I have:
2 occelaris clown
1 yellow banded possum wrasse
1 YWG and pistol pair
1 engineer goby
1 carpenters wrasse
1 exquisite fairy wrasse
1 long nose hawk fish

I fed them last night, 2 cubes of frozen food, but prior to had stopped feeding for 48 hours trying to deal with this.

Are the fish acting normally?

 

[WeekendShepherd]

Are the fish acting normally?

Yes, from what I can see they are, they’re eating, not gasping, not at the surface. That’s partly why I thought my test kit was wrong, but my LFS got the same result with a spin test.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe it is ammonia, and maybe it’s an impurity that got into the water that gives a false positive.

Does the level appear to be changing day to day?

If I thought it was real ammonia, I’d add Fritz turbo start, but it just seems unlikely to be real without some sort of causative event,

 

[Fish Fan]

maybe it’s an impurity that got into the water that gives a false positive.

What kinds of things would cause this?

I know you've told me like three times already that Prime would not cause a false high for ammonia, but this again is a situation where I see someone dosing Prime and reporting high ammonia. Is there no way that the Prime might cause this? It's just something I seem to see a lot, so I'm asking again

Thanks for your help!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What kinds of things would cause this?

I know you've told me like three times already that Prime would not cause a false high for ammonia, but this again is a situation where I see someone dosing Prime and reporting high ammonia. Is there no way that the Prime might cause this? It's just something I seem to see a lot, so I'm asking again

Thanks for your help!

Organic amines, including some amino acids (especially those with primary amines such as lysine).

I do not know if something in Prime might give false positives higher than the total ammonia before prime is added.

 

[Fish Fan]

Organic amines, including some amino acids (especially those with primary amines such as lysine).

I do not know if something in Prime might give false positives higher than the total ammonia before prime is added.

Thanks for your help!

Would you please keep the Prime thing in mind and see if you see what I'm seeing in the future?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Would you please keep the Prime thing in mind and see if you see what I'm seeing in the future?

Sure.

 

[WeekendShepherd]

Maybe it is ammonia, and maybe it’s an impurity that got into the water that gives a false positive.

Does the level appear to be changing day to day?

If I thought it was real ammonia, I’d add Fritz turbo start, but it just seems unlikely to be real without some sort of causative event,

Do you know what kind of impurity would do that?

Organic amines, including some amino acids (especially those with primary amines such as lysine).

I do not know if something in Prime might give false positives higher than the total ammonia before prime is added.

Would these be things my RODI would normally filter out? The filters are ~7 months old, so I’m not sure if they’re “used up” yet or not.

 

[Subsea]

Test salinity before & after RODI.