Ammonia still present 6 weeks into cycle HELP

jdm85

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Test kits: Salifert "not expired"

Pre RODI Ammonia: .50ppm

Post RODI Ammonia: .15ppm
"I've tried new DI resin and Carbon filter, I cannot get my ammonia down to 0 after RODI process"
PH: 6

After mixing salt: .25ppm
"Adding salt seams to increase the ammonia reading"
PH: 7.8

Bacteria: Microbacter start XLM
Microbacter Ammonia drops

Day 1
Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: 0pm
Nitrate: 0pm

Day 7

Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: .50pm
Nitrate: .50pm

Day 12

Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: .50ppm
Nitrate: 100ppm

100% water change

6 weeks in

Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: .25ppm
Nitrate: .50ppm100% water change and immediately test for Nitrate the number does not move. In theory the Nitrate should drop below 10.
Also The nitrite are still present

What should I be looking for at this point?

Is it possible for nitrate to be stuck in the rock and sand? This being the reason why I can't get the Nitrate to measure below 10ppm


My ammonia and nitrite should be reading 0 also after this long

Ammonia.jpg
 
AS

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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your cycle is done, proofed here already:


also

what's your final ammonia read above if you apply the TAN reduction steps from the instructions, to get nh3? You are one thousand percent cycled. and I hate to admit red sea agrees this time, I like it when its totally opaque then that's when the posts get fun. this one literally means cycled per pics above. it is the direct reading you want to see in a cycled reef tank. that link above I quickly inserted is because I figured your test would show way high, like those and it'd still be cycled anyway. we collect readings above far, far worse for cycled tanks. entry level ammonia kits reports all over the place, digital ones dont. that's main reason these threads are fun.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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without any overstatement this is what to do from here on out


do not test for ammonia and nitrite again, they self control as long as water remains. test for anything else you want, but not cycling.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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consider the link above for one hour, then let me know if you think yours isnt ready


What is your TAN reading, from the paper instructions off that kit> we need to know that

you are showing a total ammonia reading above, we dont look for that in reefing we look for tan reading to discern safety levels.

those ten pages cannot leave you thinking your tank isn't cycled, its not possible. You're at six weeks duration, we deal in tanks that are two weeks old there and still way past ready. welcome to non digital testing, its a nightmare but you actually have a nice kit above, that's the exact total ammonia we want to see in a cycled tank. Your tan converted nh3 is .02 or lower, this is what full running eight year reef tanks run at on red sea

in reality they run at ~.002 nh3 but red sea cannot detect that low, it reports as best as it can for the minutiae
 

Azedenkae

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If that's the case why do I have detectable amounts of ammonia and nitrite?
Nitrate should also come down with water changes but isn't
You are right. Likely nitrification is not occurring fast enough to get rid of all the nitrite, so it still reads some, but low. Not to worry, nitrite is non-lethal to marine fish unless it reaches very, very, very high levels: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php. I would not worry until nitrite reaches something like 25ppm or so, which it most likely won't in your case.

Ammonia does tend to read super low, regardless of the test. Imo it's just because there's always a baseline amount produced that causes any test to read whatever their lowest capability to read is above 0. So even though it might be showing as 0.25ppm, it could be far less than that. Even Seneyes will read something small, but clearly present, regarding ammonia.

Nitrate should be gone, and probably is. Issue is most nitrate tests are affected by the presence of nitrite. This is because nitrate tests actually convert a small portion of nitrate to nitrite, then 'read' that as a proxy. So if you have any amount of nitrite, it'll cause nitrate to falsely read higher than it should, in this case higher than the expected 0 or minimal produced from nitrification.

If you have any additional, feel free to let me know. ^_^
 
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jdm85

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You are right. Likely nitrification is not occurring fast enough to get rid of all the nitrite, so it still reads some, but low. Not to worry, nitrite is non-lethal to marine fish unless it reaches very, very, very high levels: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php. I would not worry until nitrite reaches something like 25ppm or so, which it most likely won't in your case.

Ammonia does tend to read super low, regardless of the test. Imo it's just because there's always a baseline amount produced that causes any test to read whatever their lowest capability to read is above 0. So even though it might be showing as 0.25ppm, it could be far less than that. Even Seneyes will read something small, but clearly present, regarding ammonia.

Nitrate should be gone, and probably is. Issue is most nitrate tests are affected by the presence of nitrite. This is because nitrate tests actually convert a small portion of nitrate to nitrite, then 'read' that as a proxy. So if you have any amount of nitrite, it'll cause nitrate to falsely read higher than it should, in this case higher than the expected 0 or minimal produced from nitrification.

If you have any additional, feel free to let me know. ^_^
I appreciate the insight

When it comes to adding corals
Adding corals into an environment where you have above 20ppm of nitrate is not ideal correct also there could be a concern when it comes to algae growth with nitrates at the levels they are at.

I've read 10ppm is where you want to keep nitrate for overall colorations and growth and there is a fine line between good and bad when it comes to how high nitrate should be
 
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Azedenkae

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When it comes to adding corals
Adding corals into an environment where you have above 20ppm of nitrate is not ideal correct also there could be a concern when it comes to algae growth with nitrates at the levels they are at.

I've read 10ppm is where you want to keep nitrate for overall colorations and growth and there is a fine line between good and bad when it comes to how high nitrate should be
In terms of color, yes, it seems like higher nitrate levels promote zooxanthellae growth, which results in a more brown color. Though this does not mean it is unhealthy for the corals, and apparently people have had corals growing and looking good at nitrate at like 100ppm and stuff. I haven't seen the threads themselves, but apparently it's true.

Algae growth is possible so long as there is any level of nitrate, so even 5ppm or 1ppm or even 0, depending on the feeding. Usually the way to control algae is not nutrient limitation, as then one'd also be limiting nutrient availability to corals, and between corals and algae, algae are more resilient. It's better to control algae using a clean up crew while still providing plenty of nutrients for corals.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Hey can you post a pic of your reef, we do the best prediction work seeing the ratios at work


the puzzle is assembling: we know submersion time, solving for that on a cycling chart solves for the parameters


pics will show attachments points and where they’re at in the water flow, predictably smack dab in the middle. I would not think any param measure coming from the kits being used would agree with any other kits ran on the same sample, therefore the stated nitrate is just a wildly different read on another kit. Search out comparison test threads, it’s this bad.


per above link though we know solving for the submersion time is the final determinant, not the test approximations. You’re way past any cycles completion date- if there’s lots of surface area to attach to during this wait time.

All cycling charts show ammonia compliance by the same date pretty much, we are nearing 3x that time in your setup. No cycling charts ever made have an ammonia line that takes a month to drop, they drop before the second week when using digital ammonia testing. Your ammonia matches this chart and the drop was even sooner having used bottle bac. No reef runs at zero ammonia, all reefs maintain some in the thousandths and that kit is reflecting it pretty well.

11169C7D-F35B-45DB-8A10-DEDAB873F5CF.jpeg
 
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arking_mark

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Test kits: Salifert "not expired"

Pre RODI Ammonia: .50ppm

Post RODI Ammonia: .15ppm
"I've tried new DI resin and Carbon filter, I cannot get my ammonia down to 0 after RODI process"
PH: 6

After mixing salt: .25ppm
"Adding salt seams to increase the ammonia reading"
PH: 7.8

Bacteria: Microbacter start XLM
Microbacter Ammonia drops

Day 1
Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: 0pm
Nitrate: 0pm

Day 7

Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: .50pm
Nitrate: .50pm

Day 12

Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: .50ppm
Nitrate: 100ppm

100% water change

6 weeks in

Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: .25ppm
Nitrate: .50ppm100% water change and immediately test for Nitrate the number does not move. In theory the Nitrate should drop below 10.
Also The nitrite are still present

What should I be looking for at this point?

Is it possible for nitrate to be stuck in the rock and sand? This being the reason why I can't get the Nitrate to measure below 10ppm


My ammonia and nitrite should be reading 0 also after this long

Ammonia.jpg

These types of Nitrate/Nitrite tests aren't particularly accurate and should be looked at more like yes/no for having Nitrate or Nitrite.

Similarly, these types of Ammonia tests sometimes never show 0.

In my opinio , you're good to go.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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You can begin reefing two weeks ago. Any cycling post I’m in gets a start date timely and compliant. You were ready 3-4 days after adding the first dose of bottle bac if in a rush, safely.

Source: any fish in cycle we can find as a reference.

lastly, have a plan for fish disease. If you use your ready cycle to carry fish they’re bringing pestilence into your tank. Source: fish disease forum and all its qt-skipping entrants.
 
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jdm85

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Hey can you post a pic of your reef, we do the best prediction work seeing the ratios at work


the puzzle is assembling: we know submersion time, solving for that on a cycling chart solves for the parameters


pics will show attachments points and where they’re at in the water flow, predictably smack dab in the middle. I would not think any param measure coming from the kits being used would agree with any other kits ran on the same sample, therefore the stated nitrate is just a wildly different read on another kit. Search out comparison test threads, it’s this bad.


per above link though we know solving for the submersion time is the final determinant, not the test approximations. You’re way past any cycles completion date- if there’s lots of surface area to attach to during this wait time.

All cycling charts show ammonia compliance by the same date pretty much, we are nearing 3x that time in your setup. No cycling charts ever made have an ammonia line that takes a month to drop, they drop before the second week when using digital ammonia testing. Your ammonia matches this chart and the drop was even sooner having used bottle bac. No reef runs at zero ammonia, all reefs maintain some in the thousandths and that kit is reflecting it pretty well.

11169C7D-F35B-45DB-8A10-DEDAB873F5CF.jpeg
I don't have corals in the tank yet. I'm waiting until for my parameters to be in check.

Last time I cycled a tank was a year ago, Red Sea reefer 350. I did not use external ammonia source I added Microbacter XLM and within 10 days I had zero ammonia, zero nitrite and .25ppm Nitrate


Cycling this new tank this is not the case
 
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jdm85

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You can begin reefing two weeks ago. Any cycling post I’m in gets a start date timely and compliant. You were ready 3-4 days after adding the first dose of bottle bac if in a rush, safely.

Source: any fish in cycle we can find as a reference.

lastly, have a plan for fish disease. If you use your ready cycle to carry fish they’re bringing pestilence into your tank. Source: fish disease forum and all its qt-skipping entrants.
The fish going into this new tank are coming from another established tank that I have. Not going to introduce any new fish
 

Jekyl

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Test kits: Salifert "not expired"

Pre RODI Ammonia: .50ppm

Post RODI Ammonia: .15ppm
"I've tried new DI resin and Carbon filter, I cannot get my ammonia down to 0 after RODI process"
PH: 6

After mixing salt: .25ppm
"Adding salt seams to increase the ammonia reading"
PH: 7.8

Bacteria: Microbacter start XLM
Microbacter Ammonia drops

Day 1
Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: 0pm
Nitrate: 0pm

Day 7

Ammonia: 2ppm
Nitrite: .50pm
Nitrate: .50pm

Day 12

Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: .50ppm
Nitrate: 100ppm

100% water change

6 weeks in

Ammonia: .25ppm
Nitrite: .25ppm
Nitrate: .50ppm100% water change and immediately test for Nitrate the number does not move. In theory the Nitrate should drop below 10.
Also The nitrite are still present

What should I be looking for at this point?

Is it possible for nitrate to be stuck in the rock and sand? This being the reason why I can't get the Nitrate to measure below 10ppm


My ammonia and nitrite should be reading 0 also after this long

Ammonia.jpg
Rest of the salifert tests you look down not sideways. You sure you're checking it correctly? Maybe you're supposed to set it on there and look from the top.
 

ying yang

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What im seeing doing my research and reading lots cycling threads mainly from brandon but also many others that in this thread that lots new tanks that get started and after a giving time whether used 0 bacteria in a bottle and no amnonia or used both the above source the tank will have a giving start date for certain bottle of bacteria or just nature does it thing and readings we get from our hobby grade liquid test kits are wrong or user error.and in hundreds of threads even though amnonia reading 2ppm or 8ppm all livestock survived ( granted there always could be a rare exception)
I used bottle bacteria and stayed at 2ppm amnonia from 4- 8 weeks until dropped to 0ppm.
In my qt i had readings of 2 or 5ppm with api nitrite and did 95% water change but after new 95% water added was still 2 or 5ppm.
So no harm in waiting till your readings are saying what you want them to say but what ive learnt from hundreds of threads is we pay money for bottle bacteria to speed process up and only have to wait a certain time then can add livestock and have no deaths from the amnonia etc etc but its your choice but you asked for help and been giving help and advice from someone i been seeing tracking other peoples tanks for quite some years now looking date on threads.

Edit: btw im new to saltwater and not giving advive just saying what ive read in threads similar to uours and mine was similiar to yours also
 
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