An arguement for feeding live foods

lion king · Apr 27, 2019

norfolkgarden said:
Beautiful tanks!

Can you please tell us more about the ribbon eel?

A very cool fish, they seem to be extremely difficult to keep for most, I have a few friends that have tried unsuccessfully. I've had this guy for around 2 years. I got him as a 12" juvi and he's now been turning blue for over 8 months. The juvi form is the black ribbon, then they turn blue as the male form, then to green as a female. I imagine in captivity the change is likely stunted, I bet in the wild with some females around, he'd be full male by now(hehe).

As with most predators, all the ones I've been talking about in this thread, feeding is very difficult. They will likely never take dead food right away, and will take alot of coaxing and a delicate hand to get them to dead food. The next important thing is de-worming and parasite treatment. These guys will likely be chowing on diseased and dying live food along the way, to keep them alive just long enough to end up your tank.

My method for acclimating this guy is not much different to any of my most difficult predators. They go into an observation tank alone, treated with general cure, and initially fed live food. I acclimated a few small mollies and a few ghosties to just live with him for the first few days, and just let him hang. I would corral a fish or shrimp towards him after a few days. They did all disappear after a few days. I kept him on live food with no pressure for a couple/three weeks.

Once he seemed settled in, I started to attempt feeding him dead food. I noticed this guy has what I will call a "soft mouth", very delicate, very flinchy. I'd see him stumbling to catch his live food, and although he should be able to take them down, seemed much better with smaller ones. I found him to be very jumpy and timid, so I ended up using a very slim pair of tongs, and found that thin slices of food worked best.

Other eels I've kept would attack the food and wrestle down even pieces that I thought later should have smaller. Not this guy, I found slicing his food into strips about the width of the tip of his mouth and a couple inches long worked best. I would have to tease him with the food, sometimes letting in go at just the right time, for him to chase it and maneuver it down. You need to be patient and delicate. Some of the food I feed him: silversides, squid, octopus, silverfish(not the same as silversides).

I usually don't go for pvc, but these guys do seem to be comfortable inside of a pvc pipe. Because they are so slim, a 1" pvc is fine, and easy enough to hide. The reason his pvc is exposed now is because that is not his original home. I had to move him and he now resides with 3 lions in my lion's reef.

Even after 2 years, feeding is still a delicate operation, he still has that soft mouth. I'm sure he tracks down a stray live ghostie during the night, and I make sure he gets a molly or a couple of guppies at least every couple of weeks. With all that, this is a fish that does take hands on care, in the feeding department, and anyone not up to it, should leave this one alone.

BadFish619 · Apr 27, 2019

Unfortunately or fortunately my fuzzy dwarf will only live so I have a beta tank fixed up with guppies and ghost. I wouldn't mind if he ate frozen but he's picky and will starve himself otherwise. I feed the other fish first and he'll come out interested but won't eat until his prey enters the tank.

norfolkgarden · Apr 27, 2019

lion king said:
A very cool fish, they seem to be extremely difficult to keep for most, I have a few friends that have tried unsuccessfully. I've had this guy for around 2 years. I got him as a 12" juvi and he's now been turning blue for over 8 months. The juvi form is the black ribbon, then they turn blue as the male form, then to green as a female. I imagine in captivity the change is likely stunted, I bet in the wild with some females around, he'd be full male by now(hehe).

As with most predators, all the ones I've been talking about in this thread, feeding is very difficult. They will likely never take dead food right away, and will take alot of coaxing and a delicate hand to get them to dead food. The next important thing is de-worming and parasite treatment. These guys will likely be chowing on diseased and dying live food along the way, to keep them alive just long enough to end up your tank.

My method for acclimating this guy is not much different to any of my most difficult predators. They go into an observation tank alone, treated with general cure, and initially fed live food. I acclimated a few small mollies and a few ghosties to just live with him for the first few days, and just let him hang. I would corral a fish or shrimp towards him after a few days. They did all disappear after a few days. I kept him on live food with no pressure for a couple/three weeks.

Once he seemed settled in, I started to attempt feeding him dead food. I noticed this guy has what I will call a "soft mouth", very delicate, very flinchy. I'd see him stumbling to catch his live food, and although he should be able to take them down, seemed much better with smaller ones. I found him to be very jumpy and timid, so I ended up using a very slim pair of tongs, and found that thin slices of food worked best.

Other eels I've kept would attack the food and wrestle down even pieces that I thought later should have smaller. Not this guy, I found slicing his food into strips about the width of the tip of his mouth and a couple inches long worked best. I would have to tease him with the food, sometimes letting in go at just the right time, for him to chase it and maneuver it down. You need to be patient and delicate. Some of the food I feed him: silversides, squid, octopus, silverfish(not the same as silversides).

I usually don't go for pvc, but these guys do seem to be comfortable inside of a pvc pipe. Because they are so slim, a 1" pvc is fine, and easy enough to hide. The reason his pvc is exposed now is because that is not his original home. I had to move him and he now resides with 3 lions in my lion's reef.

Even after 2 years, feeding is still a delicate operation, he still has that soft mouth. I'm sure he tracks down a stray live ghostie during the night, and I make sure he gets a molly or a couple of guppies at least every couple of weeks. With all that, this is a fish that does take hands on care, in the feeding department, and anyone not up to it, should leave this one alone.

Thank you!

Have always heard they are delicate and a difficult fish to keep happy.

Had to smile about the thin slivers of food. We have a mini-me copperband, 2" after a year.
Similar issues. It eats from my fingertips if the clam pieces are small enough. Always paranoid about its thickness and if it is eating enough.

Waited 5 years before attempting a copperband. Probably be another 5 years before I can provide the perfect tank for a ribbon eel.

Thank you for the detailed info.

lion king · May 25, 2019

So I started polling the lfs around town, as to how long their customers seem to be keeping the little lions. I was surprised and disappointed to have the response pretty consistant, 1 to 2 years max. One store even included the volitan in that poll, but I suspect it's because they run copper in their systems, and copper seems to be quite destructive to the lions. One lfs owner told me he doesn't bring them in any longer, because they all seem to die rather quickly.

Many times at the root of this demise is feeding. I am adament in my statement if you are not able or willing to provide live foods to these guys, please leave them in the ocean. On occassion I've talked with hobbyist whose lions have stopped eating dead food after some time. I take them right over to the live ghosties, and they refuse to feed live. I tell them to plan a burial, and I've always been right.

The only time I've had long term success feeding a dead only diet was with a fuzzy. It likely took about a year or so to get him to eat enough variety of foods in a proper portion size to completely drop live foods. The key is "variety" and " proper portion". A nibble here or there won't do it, and krill only won't do it.

Goodair · May 25, 2019

Guy at my lfs said the same thing about drawf lions, they tend to not live as long as they should.

Goodair · May 25, 2019

Sorry, phone spazzed out.

Goodair · May 25, 2019

lion king · Aug 14, 2019

The myth of ghost shrimp(ghosties) not being that nutritious. First off they are shrimp, they have a hard shell which has been manufactured with dense vitamins and minerals, very high in calcium. As simple as their digestive system is, they do have guts which are chock full of beneficial enzymes and flora. And juicy brains.

You are what you eat, so keep a ghostie tank/container and feed and enhance them before feeding to you predator. Vita-chem or your choice in your holding tank and selcon or similar in your feeding container 15 minutes or so before feeding; Gut loading, or basically just keeping them fed with nutritious foods. I feed Omega One micro pellets, you can see the little nuggets in their bellies before feeding.

Ghosties are the main staple in all of my small and medium sized predators diet, It has kept them thriving for many years.

lion king · Sep 11, 2019

lion king said:
So I had an epiphany answering a post last night. So the question is, "why have I never met anyone keeping dwarf and medium lions long term on a dead only diet?". Some say they have, yet I have seen no evidence of it. This is the scenario I usually see with people who have successfully coneverted their lion to dead, and have been feeding the proper amount and apparent types of food to keep the lion growing and apparently thriving. Then one day they just decide not to eat, this may go on for a few days then remedy itself. Then it happens again soon afterwards, this time they may or may not reintroduce live food to stimulate them. Let's say the lion eats and then the hobbyist continues his dead only diet. Then the lion just stops eating, this time for the last time. So why have seen this scenario more times than I can count.

I've mentioned before about how dangerous it is to fall into the trap of feeding krill only. It's well known that a krill only diet can lead to what some people describe as lockjaw. Most people will blame it on what's in the krill, and not realizing it's also what's not in the krill. Lockjaw is a symptom that usually displays as a extreme nutritional deficiency. This deficiency also occurs when a lion is fed a dead only diet, it's what's not in the food that causes "lockjaw". Perhaps, just perhaps, this is why it seems almost impossible to keep some species of lions longterm on a dead only diet.

If you are dead set on feeding a dead only diet, these thoughts may help. Include silversides or some type of whole fish in their diet, the guts and bones will play a great role in proper nutrition. Seems most of us include silversides in our volitans diet, but many don't with the little lions. At least once a week do a vit and efa soak. Efa(essential fatty acids), very important, Selcon or Brightwell Aminomega are two good choices. I still think you should supply some live ghosties weekly and at least one molly a month; at the very, very least.

I posted this in another thread, but it is applicable here as well, just in case you didn't see the original.