another apex flaw? is it a money grab? lets talk about that

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Do not give them ideas... if they start a monthly subscription, I am out. Apex can go find a new home.

Serious, I'd just jump ship to hydros @ that point.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Back when I looked into this with adding modules to support two tanks with one apex classic head, in the end it was cheaper to just buy another used apex classic @ the time. The PM1 with ph probe and temp probe was within 30$ or so of the cost of a entire classic setup with EB8. Neptune knows what it's doing with the module pricing...

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I don't know if this might help, but if you're just looking to monitor, maybe check out this setup from Hanna Instruments: https://www.hannainst.com/Marine-pH-EC-Temperature-Monitor-HI981520-01.html

 

[ddc0715]

Neptune knows what it's doing with the module pricing...

in your opinion----what are they doing?

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

in your opinion----what are they doing?

Making money, lots of money, what else is there lol.

 

[Steven Garland]

Does Apex not have a wifi module that you can use to connect to the main Apex/Fusion network that would allow you can send params such as pH,salinity,orp from say another tank to your main "brain" and monitor all tanks at once ?

Or would that basically be the A3 JR ?

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Does Apex not have a wifi module that you can use to connect to the main Apex/Fusion network that would allow you can send params such as pH,salinity,orp from say another tank to your main "brain" and monitor all tanks at once ?

Or would that basically be the A3 JR ?

Nah A3 Jr is just that a independent controller that's hobbled due to lack of features out the box.

 

[Steven Garland]

Nah A3 Jr is just that a independent controller that's hobbled due to lack of features out the box.

Sheesh,crazy crazy. I think the new X10 from Hydros will give Neptune a huhe run for its money then.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Sheesh,crazy crazy. I think the new X10 from Hydros will give Neptune a huhe run for its money then.

I'm loving the kraken idea. I have a semi diy version, but that kraken looks sexy.

 

[JDCagley]

Herein lies the problem with brand specific (proprietary) controls. I am a software engineer in whole building automation. Controlling 'everything' is my world. Fishtanks easily fall into this realm - temps, lighting, pumps, speeds, status, inputs, outputs - if there is a sensor to read it, that is what we do.

Back in the 90's when building automation became more mainstream and cost effective, Trane, Johnson, Carrier, etc. all had their own proprietary control system to control thier product and their products only. It was very difficult for building managers to have all their equipment on one front end due to the multitude of systems involved. Insert BACnet, Modbus, etc. While having been around for years, it was up to each individual company to 'allow' communications to their devices, which protocol to use, and to what extent one could control said devices.

I see the exact sams issues in this hobby - everything is proprietary, app controlled, garbage. I don' t know much about apex (other than I see no reason to have one compared to what I use), but it seems to me from what I see - you buy into Apex, you're stuck with their (mostly) everything.

Consumers must demand more open systems. The ability to add I/O and use non-proprietary sensors, equipment, etc. AND be repairable must be demanded. I hate the thought of not being able to use a SS thermister 'off the shelf' to read temp, or a 4-20ma condictivity probe of my choosing, or standard amperage transmitters for status and energy useage - there are tons of sensors availble that we desire (pH, salinity, ORP, etc) - some out of most peoples price range for sure, but the ability to not use this high dollar equipment without 3 different apps and a controller in the $1000's, I expect open, reliable, repairable and fucntional. I would simply apprecaite integration abilities (BACnet, modbus, serial comms). One hospital we do work for has fish tanks and they often ask if we can integrate to the system - ha - ask ecotech and others about this option and ZERO response.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

i dont get the need for the apex at all. My lights and pumps all have controllers, and i have an ato that works just fine.
i do use a webcam to see my ph/temp/orp (and how high the fluid levels are ).
most of the functionality of these "controllers" is not much higher end than a wifi powerstrip.
it seems like a toy when it could have real "parts"

Seriously why not sell apex with refillable ph probe?
Why keep using bad tech for water level sensing ? Why not try ultrasonic sensors that are readily available and way better in every way.

 

[Steven Garland]

Herein lies the problem with brand specific (proprietary) controls. I am a software engineer in whole building automation. Controlling 'everything' is my world. Fishtanks easily fall into this realm - temps, lighting, pumps, speeds, status, inputs, outputs - if there is a sensor to read it, that is what we do.

Back in the 90's when building automation became more mainstream and cost effective, Trane, Johnson, Carrier, etc. all had their own proprietary control system to control thier product and their products only. It was very difficult for building managers to have all their equipment on one front end due to the multitude of systems involved. Insert BACnet, Modbus, etc. While having been around for years, it was up to each individual company to 'allow' communications to their devices, which protocol to use, and to what extent one could control said devices.

I see the exact sams issues in this hobby - everything is proprietary, app controlled, garbage. I don' t know much about apex (other than I see no reason to have one compared to what I use), but it seems to me from what I see - you buy into Apex, you're stuck with their (mostly) everything.

Consumers must demand more open systems. The ability to add I/O and use non-proprietary sensors, equipment, etc. AND be repairable must be demanded. I hate the thought of not being able to use a SS thermister 'off the shelf' to read temp, or a 4-20ma condictivity probe of my choosing, or standard amperage transmitters for status and energy useage - there are tons of sensors availble that we desire (pH, salinity, ORP, etc) - some out of most peoples price range for sure, but the ability to not use this high dollar equipment without 3 different apps and a controller in the $1000's, I expect open, reliable, repairable and fucntional. I would simply apprecaite integration abilities (BACnet, modbus, serial comms). One hospital we do work for has fish tanks and they often ask if we can integrate to the system - ha - ask ecotech and others about this option and ZERO response.

This is why if I was to do any monitoring I would just use PinPoint's monitors. Cheap,not wifi dependent,no plugs just a 9v battery. Simple as pie.

I'm loving the kraken idea. I have a semi diy version, but that kraken looks sexy.

Amazing idea. But the X10 with 4 built in doser heads,4 sense ports,2 drive ports and ph & salinity ports ? Wowza.

 

[wishntoboutside]

I think you may want to look into the HYDROS systems.

 

[JDCagley]

Some prefer simple. Simple is best. But when one can't always be present or respond, the ability to be notified of issues and do something about it remotely come in to play. While I could, in theory, control every single item on my tank with my controller, I prefer monitoring mostly. I do control some aspects - dosing, on/off of a few pumps and the heaters. Everything else is monitoring with remote notification (email and text), the ability to see my system remotely and make any changes needed (for instance, I could shut down a pump, or the whole system, if needed), is key to me. I assume most apex users feel the same? The need to know/see - easily - what is 'going' on is the lure.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

Some prefer simple. Simple is best. But when one can't always be present or respond, the ability to be notified of issues and do something about it remotely come in to play. While I could, in theory, control every single item on my tank with my controller, I prefer monitoring mostly. I do control some aspects - dosing, on/off of a few pumps and the heaters. Everything else is monitoring with remote notification (email and text), the ability to see my system remotely and make any changes needed (for instance, I could shut down a pump, or the whole system, if needed), is key to me. I assume most apex users feel the same? The need to know/see - easily - what is 'going' on is the lure.

I use a Cole Parmer ph/orp/temp controller on one of my setups, the other uses milwaukee gear ,

the cole parmer operates my ozone generator and dryer, and monitors my calcium reactor and kalkreactor. and tank ph Its not aquarium specific controller but it does quite a bit. capability for 4 ph/orp probes plus temp probe. It also will turn off the heaters, in event your heater fails.
They actually make models that are cheaper, more accurate and generally easier to use than either of the aquarium brands. , lik eit autorecognizes buffers, etc..

 

[ddc0715]

Wow really good points of view.... at the end of the day. i am after a controller that can be expanded to cover all three of my tanks. I have a 220 fowler, a 150 reef and the wife Euphyllia tank.


in the beginning when i got my apex all i had was the 150 reef and as I expanded into fish only and species-specific tanks. apex is losing me (and I’m sure others) with the lack of the multiple tank monitoring. yeah, they have a few things that can be added to a second tank but those fail in comparison to what the original located apex does. like i said in the op. I can monitor temp, ph, orp, sal. but I cannot do the same thing in a cost effective way on my other tanks. some say just buy another one... well thats not the point...i also enjoy the ease of seeing all my data in ONE... ONE .... ONNNNNNE APP. At the moment I have about 7800 apps that i have to use...hydro, redsea kessil, neptune, who wants to buy one apex per tank in order to get the same and equal features as the first one you buy... NOT ME... its bs for the more advance reefers like most of us are. i personally would feel ok calling a company like this hypocrites. they pitch you ----it’s all you will ever need, ultimate control. we have made the hobby so easy... that’s an overstated exaggerated statement to make them money. its the classic kiss the baby so they dont know your taking its candy while you do it..... So newbies my advice to you is you better include future tank and expansion ability when you’re shopping for a controller. apex is good but man its flawed when trying to. exspand.. I mean who wants to buy a gas can every time you buy a car. You have one gas can for all vehicles..

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I get it you'll be like me, lol.

 

[ddc0715]

and that up there is what i want to avoid. wow....

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

It isn't sooooo bad, at least it's one app, lol. The max I ran is 4 heads. I know there are folks out here with quadruple that in service! The 4th apex was converted to a hydros after the classic head went kaput after a power spike from lightning.

 

[Steven Garland]

I still say PinPoint monitors...