Any Good Flow Meters?

[Forsaken77]

I've been searching for an inline flow meter that uses 3/4" barb fittings to connect to vinyl tubing. I want to have one directly after each of my 2 UV sterilizers so I know the flow rate going through them.

I just ordered 2 Sicce Silent 3.0 pumps to feed each 25 watt sterilizer. I'm trying to get around 300gph after head loss. And obviously I did the math with the bends and all that, but you never REALLY know what the actual flow is.

Worst case is I attach the UV'S to each of the 2 DC return pumps that use 1" barbs (the UV comes with hosetail barb fittings from 1/2" all the way to 1.25" and aren't cut yet) and run it around Level 1 Sterilization instead of Level 2.

But I wanted to find something accurate that won't reduce flow and not cost a fortune.

So if anyone has something that works in saltwater and fits my criteria, PLEASE let me know.

 

[mcarroll]

I'm trying to get around 300gph after head loss. And obviously I did the math with the bends and all that, but you never REALLY know what the actual flow is.

I think I disagree. (But need more info.)

If you know the details of the plumbing situation, you should be able to make a very reasonable estimate of flow.

Can you post the details of your plumbing? If it's complicated, a diagram would be helpful.

How high is the outlet from the sump?
How long is the plumbing run total?
How many 90º bends and other fittings? Be as specific as you can.
Are these pumps and UV functioning as your returns as well?
Any other details.

I'd like to run them through this calculator:
http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm

Also, how are you determining your dosage rate? What is your target organism?

 

[sneub]

The only option that I have seen is this link, they are expensive.
https://reefbuilders.com/2015/07/09/prs-corrente-digital-flowmeter-gph-fahrenheit-readout/
eBay has a few that measure GPM, might be safe for aquarium applications.

 

[Forsaken77]

I think I disagree. (But need more info.)

If you know the details of the plumbing situation, you should be able to make a very reasonable estimate of flow.

Can you post the details of your plumbing? If it's complicated, a diagram would be helpful.

How high is the outlet from the sump?
How long is the plumbing run total?
How many 90º bends and other fittings? Be as specific as you can.
Are these pumps and UV functioning as your returns as well?
Any other details.

I'd like to run them through this calculator:
http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm

Also, how are you determining your dosage rate? What is your target organism?

Well, after the measuring I came up with roughly 8-8.5 feet of head pressure.

That includes 2-90° on the UV itself, which is 2 feet right there. The unit is 20" long, which horizontal is 10" of head. Then the rest is a normal run from the pump to the UV (which is diagonal, not straight up), then to the tank. It's also an over-the-back return for each unit.

And no, they will not be connected as my main return pumps. I bought 2 Sicce Silent 3.0 pumps based on the graph on Marine Depot.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Sicce_Sy...arium_Pumps-Sicce_USA-XJ1135-FIWPEPZT-vi.html

The link is to a smaller Sicce Silent because the 3.0 model has an error at the 7 foot head area. So according to the graph, 7 foot head is 350gph, with a max of 9.9 feet. If I'm at 8 feet I'm going for 300 or just slightly less using 3/4" vinyl.

I may just put them on my return pumps after a while, which are 1,400gph Deepwater Aquatics DC pumps (1 for each overflow) with 1" tubing. But the overflows are rated at 700gph each, which would do Level 1 Sterilization with a 25 watt Vecton 600 connected to each return. I looked at the Sicce 3.5, but is at 525gph at 7 feet and has a max of 12 feet. So it would be too much and would have to be throttled and I'd have no idea of what flow rate is passing through.

There isn't a "specific" thing I'm trying to kill. However, after the cycle I want the water to be free of anything as the fish are slowly added. Then switch them to the return pumps or keep them separated.

Without a flow meter I was trying to find a pump that would level out at the needed flow rate and be small enough and quiet.

The tank isn't setup yet, but it's a Marineland RR 180 on the 34" Monterey stand. I used rough estimates from the 93 gallon cube I have setup. The stand is taller on the 180 though and I don't have a sump for it yet either. I probably should have waited until I had everything setup, but the pumps were on sale at BRS.

 

[mcarroll]

If you can return those pumps, they are overkill by a wide margin.....bear with me on this explanation. (Plus a question or two.)

Correct me if this is the wrong sterilizer:
Vecton V2 600: UV 25 Watt (160 Gallons) / T.M.C. / UV Sterilizers / Saltwater / Dry Goods - Quality Marine

Can you throw the tubing connectors in the parts bin and hard-plumb this thing?

[Much later...] OK, found the manual via Google: https://fishkeeper-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2014-07-03/1c8f36ef520bea439f6bc2e9662043db.pdf

Yes you can hard plumb it, but they want you to buy a kit. That could mean there are proprietary parts involved or not.

run it around Level 1 Sterilization instead of Level 2.

Precisely what does this mean? (I'm still looking for some documentation on this unit....dose rates don't seem to be on the website or in the manual!)

That includes 2-90° on the UV itself, which is 2 feet right there.

No. A rule of thumb shorthand measurement that doesn't apply here. We'll get to the specifics...

The unit is 20" long, which horizontal is 10" of head.

Ditto.

the rest is a normal run from the pump to the UV (which is diagonal, not straight up)

It's mostly the vertical that matters unless you have a pretty long or elaborate plumbing run, or high flor, or small plumbing, or...

We're getting to the specifics...

There isn't a "specific" thing I'm trying to kill.

You need to refine your strategy so you are. You can't really target a "correct" setup without knowing the purpose of the setup.

In general, you can kill teeny tiny things like phytoplankton and smaller, or bigger things like parasites. I haven't run a TMC unit before, but unless there's trickery involved the unit should require a very different flow and maybe a very different setup to achieve control on the different size-classes of organisms.

The tank isn't setup yet, but it's a Marineland RR 180 on the 34" Monterey stand.

Ok, the details we need. Draw us a picture if you have some thing more elaborate planned, but what I'm calculating on is this:

Basically a separate return directly from the sump to the tank from each of these UV's. I may be confused but it sounds like you also plan on running a third return that will not be UV controlled. I'm not sure you will want (or need) to do this in the end, so correct me if I'm wrong.

34"+24" puts the rim of the tank about 58" off the ground. Round up to 60".

Apparently you calculate head-pressure from the sump water level, which I'll assume to be 6".

This puts your base head pressure at 52". Less than 4.5 feet.

I would normally add one foot for the usual extra length to from point A to B, but if the UV unit is 12" long we'll add two feet.

Total plumbing length we'll assume to be 52 + 24 = 76"

We'll assume one 90º elbow for getting the flow into the tank, and two capped-off Tee's on the sterilizer. (They aren't elbows if you look at it. And honestly at the flow rates we're talking they aren't going to figure in significantly anyway.)

Your target flow for the sump should generally be around 2x to 4x the display size in GPH.

So for a 180 Gallon tank that range would be 360 GPH (2x) up to 720 GPH (4x). Anything in the range and you know skimmers and media reactors are well fed and the system will work fine.

I'd normally just target 4x flow to make the numbers as conservative as possible for purposes of pump selection.

But in your case, I've read this from the QM link above:

It looks like you could nearly service the whole tank with a single unit run at maximum 505 GPH of flow.

(They don't show dosage rates though, so again: what is that 505 GPH actually treating? You have to know what that means and you have to know what you're targeting.)

Because I'm assuming you want to target something more than "the minimum" and maybe even parasites ("the maximum") I'll assume you want no more than 50% of that maximum flow rate. (The manufacturer really needs to confirm the correct number.)

In that case, two V600's will still give your sump 500 GPH, which is plenty of flow for everything. So we'll assume 500 GPH total for UV.

BTW, you could probably run this whole thing from the return pump that it sounds like you already have (BLDC5, correct?) and I think that might even be the smart way to do it, but...

I'm sticking with the two separate but identical UV channels and Sicce pumps for the example. That means 250 GPH for each UV channel.

Summary for each UV return channel:

52" base head height
76" plumbing length
250 GPH
1 90º, 2 Tee's​

Breaking post.....part 2 coming.

 

[mcarroll]

Just to repeat, calculation are being generated here:
http://www.freecalc.com/fric.htm

What plumbing size to use is the next question to answer since that can potentially have a big impact on friction loss too.

For example, if you chose 3/4" PVC for economy or some other reason, it would add over three additional feet to your head pressure.

Pressure Loss (psi): 1.41 Head Loss (ft): 3.2
Line Number:
Date: 1/5/2017
Nominal Pipe Size: 0.75
Pipe Schedule: SCH 40
Flow Rate (gpm): 4
Viscosity (cP): 1
Specific Gravity (water=1): 1.025
Temperature (F): 79
Pipe Roughness (ft): 0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.): 0.824
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec): 2.41
Reynolds Number: 15736
Flow Region: Turbulent
Friction Factor: 0.028
Overall K: 35.4
Piping Length (ft): 76
Short Radius Elbows: 1
Tee Flow Branch : 2
Pipe Exit : 1​

Upgrading to 1" PVC reduced added head pressure to just one foot.

Upgrading to 1.5" makes friction losses almost disappear:

Pressure Loss (psi): 0.06 Head Loss (ft): 0.1
Line Number:
Date: 1/5/2017
Nominal Pipe Size: 1.5
Pipe Schedule: SCH 40
Flow Rate (gpm): 4
Viscosity (cP): 1
Specific Gravity (water=1): 1.025
Temperature (F): 79
Pipe Roughness (ft): 0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.): 1.61
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec): 0.63
Reynolds Number: 8054
Flow Region: Turbulent
Friction Factor: 0.033
Overall K: 22.57
Piping Length (ft): 76
Short Radius Elbows: 1
Tee Flow Branch : 2
Pipe Exit : 1​

Bigger plumbing isn't cheap, but it can be cheaper than buying and running a pump 24/7/365 for years and years that's bigger than it needs to be!

So if you chose the worst-case 3/4" plumbing, that give you a total head pressure of:

[base head pressure] + [added head pressure from friction losses] = Total Head Pressure
52" + 36" = 88" or almost 7.5 feet/2.2 meters. We're looking for about 950 L/h (250 GPH) so that does lead us to a Syncra 3.0 or equivalent.​

But!!!!

If you upgrade the plumbing to 1.5", that give you a total head pressure of:

52" or 1.3 meters. The same flow rate as above leads us to either a Syncra 1.5 or 2.0.

We have latitude to go either way.....slower (the 1.5) is actually more effective for parasite treatment if you wanted to err strategically.​

The pumps in question – the Syncra 1.5, 2.0 and 3.0 – use 23, 35, and 48 watts respectively. On marinedepot, they cost $71, $97 and $110 respectively.

A ten foot section of 3/4" PVC runs about $2.50. 1.5" runs about $6.

It's 300% more, but it's a tiny total amount. Upgrade the plumbing using the $40 each saved buying the smaller pumps. Pocket the money-not-spent on the extra 24 watts you would no longer be "wasting" just so you can have smaller plumbing.

The calculator doesn't include 1.25" PVC – it may be just as good on the numbers, but I might slant toward the Syncra 2.0 just in case if you go that route. To me (not knowing too much about your scenario) the 1.5" makes sense though.

 

[mcarroll]

Oh, just to see what the elbows add in terms of fiction loss, I added ten 90º elbows to the same 1.5" calculation shown above and it barely changes:

Pressure Loss (psi): 0.07 Head Loss (ft): 0.2
Line Number:
Date: 1/5/2017
Nominal Pipe Size: 1.5
Pipe Schedule: SCH 40
Flow Rate (gpm): 4
Viscosity (cP): 1
Specific Gravity (water=1): 1.025
Temperature (F): 79
Pipe Roughness (ft): 0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.): 1.61
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec): 0.63
Reynolds Number: 8054
Flow Region: Turbulent
Friction Factor: 0.033
Overall K: 26.35
Piping Length (ft): 76
Short Radius Elbows: 10
Tee Flow Branch : 2
Pipe Exit : 1​

Likewise even for the much more restrictive 3/4"....even adding ten elbows doesn't change it much:

Pressure Loss (psi): 1.59 Head Loss (ft): 3.6
Line Number:
Date: 1/5/2017
Nominal Pipe Size: 0.75
Pipe Schedule: SCH 40
Flow Rate (gpm): 4
Viscosity (cP): 1
Specific Gravity (water=1): 1.025
Temperature (F): 79
Pipe Roughness (ft): 0.000016
Actual Pipe ID (in.): 0.824
Fluid Velocity (ft/sec): 2.41
Reynolds Number: 15736
Flow Region: Turbulent
Friction Factor: 0.028
Overall K: 39.9
Piping Length (ft): 76
Short Radius Elbows: 10
Tee Flow Branch : 2
Pipe Exit : 1​

 

[Forsaken77]

This is where I got my info from and where I bought the sterilizers...

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/TMCUVSterilizer.html#vecton6

Give it a read if you have time and you'll see why I came to the conclusion that I did.

I don't usually hard plumb anything because, frankly, I have a more difficult time because I'm disabled. So using black vinyl tubing just is easier for me.

And the 700gph is for Level 1 Sterilization, not Level 2. Lvl 2 requires 10-12 gallons per watt, per hour. Which in this case is 300gph. You are correct in that you want roughly 2x's the tank turnover rate per hour, and why I'm using 2 is because not ALL of the water is being run through the UV's unless I connect them to the return pumps and settle for Level 1 sterilization.

I already bought the units and wanted to treat for any bacteria, viruses or parasites, not to mention algae. I don't run a reef, It's FOWLR. It's mostly preventative.

I'm also running 2 separate return pumps, 1 on each overflow. So two BLDC-5 pumps. A total of 4 pumps in the sump.

I was using the more restricted 3/4" vinyl just for the UV's and 1" vinyl for the returns. Once the tank is up and running with the majority of fish, the UV's won't be running 24/7. Maybe half that.

But that site can explain it better than I can. It's based on real world usage, not just manufacturer specs.

 

[ShrimpSquire]

American Aquarium Products mentions that the values TMC provides are generous, and that they suggest a lower flow. It doesn't say a "ideal flow", but it does say a minimum flow to prevent the UV bulb from overheating.

 

[Kershaw]

https://www.neptunesystems.com/products/expansion-modules/fmk-2/

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I'm running the same uv unit. Has anyone found a non Neptune flow meter that can run inline?

After speaking with the manufacturer, they recommended 250-350 for parasite control.