Any solutions to hair algae that won't go away?

[VintageReefer]

What is an orthophosphate ?

No one wants to be a human Tang ! It adds more stress to our already stressful lives!

Also, if let’s say I set up a fuge, and I have 10 N and .1 detectable P, with GHA present, would theoretically my levels eventually ‘drop’ and possibly bottom out?

My question is - How does one algae outcompete the other without bottoming out and damaging coral in a reef ?

This is my method with an algae scrubber

You adjust your scrubber hours based on the levels you need

I run my scrubber 18 hours a day and my levels are .02-.05 phosphate and 2-5 nitrate.

My display is 95% algae free. Yes occasionally a rock pops up with some hair algae. The scrubber takes care of it in time but then it pops up somewhere else. But it’s all managed and controls itself. Corals are thriving. I could, and have, increased the hours to 20 and it does reduce algae even further but i had some corals pale and I got nervous and dialed back to 18. That’s the sweet spot for my tank

Oh. I don’t do water changes either and don’t need a skimmer. My scrubber is my only tool for nutrient control

 

[crabgrass]

What ‘stuff’ did you add to manage levels?

I’ve heard algae will consume N and P which will give you lower readings, I wonder if anyone has tried to ‘zero’ out their nutrients in an attempt to starve algae out


How is your new tank doing now with the algal issue

Real 0-ing out nutrients will open the door to Dino’s (as I experienced in my 20g). I did also experience what you are saying above and reading 0, but having a healthy GHA population (because it was taking all of the nutrients out).

If you are reading 0 / 0 and you have lots of GHA, I think you could go down two roads:
1) export of that GHA, and the N and P trapped in it. Preferred mechanism would be manual removal to physically get it out of the tank. Less desirable way would be to dose something to kill it. If you don’t collect it (eg in a filter sock) and it decomposes, it will just end up as N / P back in the tank.

2) evaluate the source of the problem. Something was feeding the GHa, etc. Either phosphates unbinding from rock, bad RO, over feeding, etc.

If you find that you’re just adding more food than the tank can use, slow down on the feeding or figure out how to export more. Eg fuge, algae scrubber, bigger skimmers, etc. Bad water - switch., etc. But some action you were taking was fueling it - although it’s hard to admit sometimes

You can rip clean or dose stuff all you want. But you need to understand how it was being introduced. This is the investigative side. I never 100% figured out my issue with the 20g, but have some theories.

 

[crabgrass]

This is my method with an algae scrubber

You adjust your scrubber hours based on the levels you need

I run my scrubber 18 hours a day and my levels are .02-.05 phosphate and 2-5 nitrate.

My display is 95% algae free. Yes occasionally a rock pops up with some hair algae. The scrubber takes care of it in time but then it pops up somewhere else. But it’s all managed and controls itself. Corals are thriving. I could, and have, increase the hours to 20 and it does reduce algae even further but i has some corals pale and I for nervous and dialed back to 18. That’s the sweet spot for my tank

Oh. I don’t do water changes either and don’t need a skimmer. My scrubber is my only tool for nutrient control

In your experience (I am just a rookie at this), if you have advanced GHA growth, will and algae scrubber outcompete GHA and eventually make it recede or kill it off? Or do you combine it with a CUC / tangs / or manual removal to allow the scrubber to really control.

 

[Miami Reef]

What is an orthophosphate ?

“Phosphorus exists in two primary forms in seawater: as inorganic phosphate, especially orthophosphate, and as organophosphate. Orthophosphate is readily taken up by algae and actively inhibits calcification. The organic forms may or may not be available to organisms such as algae. Aquarists can readily test for inorganic orthophosphate using a standard aquarium phosphate test kit, but testing for organic phosphorus compounds with a kit is considerably more tedious.”

Phosphate in the Reef Aquarium

The phosphorus atom is one of living matter's basic building blocks. It is present in every living creature and in every reef aquarium's water. Unfortunately, it is often present in excess in reef aquaria, and that excess has the potential to cause at least two substantial problems for...

www.reefedition.com

 

[VintageReefer]

In your experience (I am just a rookie at this), if you have advanced GHA growth, will and algae scrubber outcompete GHA and eventually make it recede or kill it off? Or do you combine it with a CUC / tangs / or manual removal to allow the scrubber to really control.

A properly sized algae scrubber will outcompete it in my experience and I have done this several times successfully. I do not use tangs or herbivorous fish. I only have a few snails and crabs…I’ve tried large populations but they don’t touch the longer algae and eventually the crabs kill off each other and the snails and most die in time.

When I got my scrubber I had uncontrollable hair algae. In the first month the scrubber became established growing turf inside and my basketball of chaeto died out. In the second and third months my display algae diminished and didn’t come back.

 

[Angel_V_the_reefer]

This is my method with an algae scrubber

You adjust your scrubber hours based on the levels you need

I run my scrubber 18 hours a day and my levels are .02-.05 phosphate and 2-5 nitrate.

Oh yeah, at 18 hours, for sure algae is going grow in the scrubber

My display is 95% algae free. Yes occasionally a rock pops up with some hair algae. The scrubber takes care of it in time but then it pops up somewhere else. But it’s all managed and controls itself.

Algae to me is only normal and does not bother my eyes much, unless they’re suffocating any coral

I used to have a tank and this was the issue with bryopsis. Currently setting a new one up! This tank existed a couple years back when I took a break

Corals are thriving. I could, and have, increased the hours to 20 and it does reduce algae even further but i had some corals pale and I got nervous and dialed back to 18. That’s the sweet spot for my tank

Stability

Oh. I don’t do water changes either and don’t need a skimmer. My scrubber is my only tool for nutrient control

Yeah I’d imagine you wouldn’t need to. I’m sure you’re probably dosing for coral, that is if you’re keeping calcifying coral ?

Would an ATS (Algae Turf Scrubber) outcompete pestilence such as bryopsis or bubble algae? Any body have any luck at this ?

People have been praising Fluconazole a lot and I’m just not a chemical type of guy

 

[VintageReefer]

Oh yeah, at 18 hours, for sure algae is going grow in the scrubber

Algae to me is only normal and does not bother my eyes much, unless they’re suffocating any coral

I used to have a tank and this was the issue with bryopsis. Currently setting a new one up! This tank existed a couple years back when I took a break

Stability

Yeah I’d imagine you wouldn’t need to. I’m sure you’re probably dosing for coral, that is if you’re keeping calcifying coral ?

Would an ATS (Algae Turf Scrubber) outcompete pestilence such as bryopsis or bubble algae? Any body have any luck at this ?

People have been praising Fluconazole a lot and I’m just not a chemical type of guy

When I add fw top off I mix in all for reef to replenish trade elements and refresh Alk/ca

The scrubber has prevented or eliminate many forms of algae but in my experience it did not affect bubble algae. I read, from the mfg, that it can eliminate bubble algae but it’s a more resistant strain and needs more hours. My corals didn’t like this. My bubble algae was getting bad in some spots. I read good things about pithos crabs, bought one and when it came I dropped bubble algae in when it was acclimating. He started eating it right away! I ordered a second pithos crab. In about 2 weeks, I only have bubble algae in spots the crabs can’t get to, and I manually removed

Now the pitho crabs burrow in sand, clean frag plugs and rockwork

 

[Angel_V_the_reefer]

If you are reading 0 / 0 and you have lots of GHA, I think you could go down two roads:
1) export of that GHA, and the N and P trapped in it. Preferred mechanism would be manual removal to physically get it out of the tank. Less desirable way would be to dose something to kill it.

I don’t think chemicals, even if they work, should be solutions to our ecosystems. I don’t want to debate here but I just don’t see it’s use

If you don’t collect it (eg in a filter sock) and it decomposes, it will just end up as N / P back in the tank.

Yes algae are basically a sponge you have to get rid of. It’s like using a sponge filter, you have to take out the sponge and rinse it out or your waste will decompose back into the tank

2) evaluate the source of the problem. Something was feeding the GHa, etc. Either phosphates unbinding from rock, bad RO, over feeding, etc.

If you find that you’re just adding more food than the tank can use, slow down on the feeding or figure out how to export more. Eg fuge, algae scrubber, bigger skimmers, etc. Bad water - switch., etc.

so in a sense, manual removal paired with lowering of nutrients should aid in reducing the algae?

In my head it’s like this - remove GHA, test your water often, export nutrients (ie. Scrubber, water changes, skimmer, etc), thus lowering free nutrients in water

You can rip clean or dose stuff all you want. But you need to understand how it was being introduced. This is the investigative side. I never 100% figured out my issue with the 20g, but have some theories.

I see lots of people treating symptoms rather than treating the root cause !!

 

[Angel_V_the_reefer]

“Phosphorus exists in two primary forms in seawater: as inorganic phosphate, especially orthophosphate, and as organophosphate. Orthophosphate is readily taken up by algae and actively inhibits calcification. The organic forms may or may not be available to organisms such as algae. Aquarists can readily test for inorganic orthophosphate using a standard aquarium phosphate test kit, but testing for organic phosphorus compounds with a kit is considerably more tedious.”

Phosphate in the Reef Aquarium

The phosphorus atom is one of living matter's basic building blocks. It is present in every living creature and in every reef aquarium's water. Unfortunately, it is often present in excess in reef aquaria, and that excess has the potential to cause at least two substantial problems for...

www.reefedition.com

I’ll give this a read. I appreciate the link! Thank you Miami reef

 

[Angel_V_the_reefer]

A properly sized algae scrubber will outcompete it in my experience and I have done this several times successfully.

has anyone attempted using an Algae Scrubber without success?

Apart from GHA, anybody have success have your ATS outcompete other types of algae ?

 

[Angel_V_the_reefer]

The scrubber has prevented or eliminate many forms of algae but in my experience it did not affect bubble algae. I read, from the mfg,

What is mfg?

that it can eliminate bubble algae but it’s a more resistant strain and needs more hours. My corals didn’t like this.

So this is where you reached your limit with the scrubber I see

pithos crabs, bought one and when it came I dropped bubble algae in when it was acclimating. He started eating it right away! I ordered a second pithos crab. In about 2 weeks, I only have bubble algae in spots the crabs can’t get to, and I manually removed

That’s good to note. I’ll keep this in mind If I ever run into this issue (which I will I believe lol)

Now the pitho crabs burrow in sand, clean frag plugs and rockwork

Win !

 

[crabgrass]

has anyone attempted using an Algae Scrubber without success?

Apart from GHA, anybody have success have your ATS outcompete other types of algae ?

The other type of algae Cyano, bubble, Dino and Diatoms are all driven by other factors and may or may not be fueled by the same stuff and algae scrubber consumes. You could potentially trigger a Dino outbreak if you actually zerod out nutrients and gave it an opportunity to invade.

 

[VintageReefer]

What is mfg?


So this is where you reached your limit with the scrubber I see

That’s good to note. I’ll keep this in mind If I ever run into this issue (which I will I believe lol)

Win !

Mfg is a abbreviation with a stupid iPhone incorrect autocorrect

Manufacturer = MFR

Manufacturing = MFG

The mfr says it can control bubble algae but also states that it’s a more difficult algae due to the bubble shell storing nutrients inside. Bubble algae is my limit with the scrubber. Now….would my bubble algae situation have been worse without the scrubber, and would the population have grown faster? Who knows. Maybe? Was the scrubber helping in some way to keep it under control? Possibly? Can’t rule that out

 

[VintageReefer]

@ScubaSkeets is on here and he had an uncontrollable hair algae situation, built his own scrubber, made no other changes and the algae issue was resolved. To my knowledge it has not come back either

 

[Angel_V_the_reefer]

Mfg is a abbreviation with a stupid iPhone incorrect autocorrect

Manufacturer = MFR

Manufacturing = MFG

Gotcha

would my bubble algae situation have been worse without the scrubber, and would the population have grown faster? Who knows. Maybe? Was the scrubber helping in some way to keep it under control? Possibly? Can’t rule that out

I’m sure it had a role in reducing its quantity in your tank but reefing doesn’t always have definite answers

 

[Midasblen]

What ‘stuff’ did you add to manage levels?

I’ve heard algae will consume N and P which will give you lower readings, I wonder if anyone has tried to ‘zero’ out their nutrients in an attempt to starve algae out


How is your new tank doing now with the algal issue

At one point a while back my tank at less than 5 ppm of nitrates and 0 phosphates but the hair algae continued to grow.

 

[Midasblen]

Also when/ how often should you clean out a scrubber? Do you just go by when it looks mostly full with algae?

 

[VintageReefer]

Also when/ how often should you clean out a scrubber? Do you just go by when it looks mostly full with algae?

Yes but typically every 10-14 days. I’ve gone less and longer it’s pretty flexible. But if you wait too long (more than 2+ weeks) you will get limited growth and thus reduced performance

 

[GARRIGA]

This is my method with an algae scrubber

You adjust your scrubber hours based on the levels you need

I run my scrubber 18 hours a day and my levels are .02-.05 phosphate and 2-5 nitrate.

My display is 95% algae free. Yes occasionally a rock pops up with some hair algae. The scrubber takes care of it in time but then it pops up somewhere else. But it’s all managed and controls itself. Corals are thriving. I could, and have, increased the hours to 20 and it does reduce algae even further but i had some corals pale and I got nervous and dialed back to 18. That’s the sweet spot for my tank

Oh. I don’t do water changes either and don’t need a skimmer. My scrubber is my only tool for nutrient control

Tried out-competing my GHA with Pom Pom illuminated 24/7 and display down to 20% for 8 hours and the GHA won. Has now smothered my Pom Pom and I've quit this experiment. Now back to testing Fuge with GHA and how best to provide structure so it can still out-compete my display. GHA in the make-shift algae box was however stronger than that in the display which was also being affected by hydrogen peroxide I was dosing yet that under the stronger all duration light was unaffected. This included Pom Pom and the overrunning GHA. Much lusher and greener too. Back to dosing higher levels of peroxide to see if kills off all GHA and allows the Pom Pom to recover. Only one way to find out. Do it.

 

[jda]

Consumers is the only solution. Algae does not even need any detectable po4 or no3 since it can get phosphorous from polyphosphates/metaphosphates (do not show up on orthophosphate test kits) and get nitrogen from ammonia. You limit algae, you limit the corals - the algae has every advantage it seems.