Aquarium and electrical safety

[Euphylliaphyle]

I have a small tank (36 gallons) with small motors, so it may not be relevant to your situation, but fwiw I have not had a single trip through a month of twice-daily feeding times with flow off & on and a couple of water changes and 4x flow shutdowns for target feeding of corals. Running a GFCI/AFCI combo circuit breaker.

 

[RobertK]

I have a small tank (36 gallons) with small motors, so it may not be relevant to your situation, but fwiw I have not had a single trip through a month of twice-daily feeding times with flow off & on and a couple of water changes and 4x flow shutdowns for target feeding of corals. Running a GFCI/AFCI combo circuit breaker.

Do you have AFCI circuit breakers?

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

Do you have AFCI circuit breakers?

Sorry, I edited my post to say GFCI/AFCI combo circuit breaker.

 

[Paul B]

As to outdoor Christmas lights I cut them off and use mar rets and what I call sap tape . So with that in mind how does the GFI protect you ?

Yes.

 

[Freenow54]

I am trying to do this in good taste just to prevent a reoccurrence. Does any one know what happened and how to Baruch " Miami Reef " ?

 

[BeanAnimal]

There is no new information or specifics to be shared at this point. Please use GFCI protection on and around your aquarium -- if not throughout your home.

 

[Freenow54]

There is no new information or specifics to be shared at this point. Please use GFCI protection on and around your aquarium -- if not throughout your home.

Thank You. For the last clarification as to " Stray " voltage " I know you have stated that it is induced into the water. My thought that the intrinsic protection has broken down , or the salt has corroded the cord probably where it enters the equipment ( usually power heads } To my mind there should be a difference in current that should trip the GFI which is why your induced voltage theory may be correct to me. Regardless this seems to be the most common complaint so how do we protect ourselves in that scenario ?

 

[RobertK]

Please use GFCI protection on and around your aquarium.

Question about GFCI receptacles: have they changed at all in the last 20 years?

I am in the process of preparing for a new aquarium in the same location as my old aquarium. The old aquarium is gone so this is an opportunity for improvements. When the old tank was installed 20 years ago I had two GFCI receptacles installed. I'm having an electrician install an additional GFCI receptacle next week. Should I have him replace the old GFCI receptacles with new ones? Not sure if they are less reliable after many years of use or if the technology has changed in the last 20 years. Thanks!

 

[NanoSteam]

Question about GFCI receptacles: have they changed at all in the last 20 years?

I am in the process of preparing for a new aquarium in the same location as my old aquarium. The old aquarium is gone so this is an opportunity for improvements. When the old tank was installed 20 years ago I had two GFCI receptacles installed. I'm having an electrician install an additional GFCI receptacle next week. Should I have him replace the old GFCI receptacles with new ones? Not sure if they are less reliable after many years of use or if the technology has changed in the last 20 years. Thanks!

Even if they are the same a quality brand GFCI is very affordable now it would be worth replacing for me.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thank You. For the last clarification as to " Stray " voltage " I know you have stated that it is induced into the water. My thought that the intrinsic protection has broken down , or the salt has corroded the cord probably where it enters the equipment ( usually power heads } To my mind there should be a difference in current that should trip the GFI which is why your induced voltage theory may be correct to me. Regardless this seems to be the most common complaint so how do we protect ourselves in that scenario ?

GFCI looks for imbalance between hot and neutral.

Induced voltage is not a theory, it is basic physics.

Fault current (frayed wire example) represents leaked current and will trip the GFCI.

Induced voltage/current is "work" being done. It doesn't matter where that current goes, the GFCI can't see it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Question about GFCI receptacles: have they changed at all in the last 20 years?

I am in the process of preparing for a new aquarium in the same location as my old aquarium. The old aquarium is gone so this is an opportunity for improvements. When the old tank was installed 20 years ago I had two GFCI receptacles installed. I'm having an electrician install an additional GFCI receptacle next week. Should I have him replace the old GFCI receptacles with new ones? Not sure if they are less reliable after many years of use or if the technology has changed in the last 20 years. Thanks!

Yes, they have changed over the last 20 years. They are less prone to nuisance tripping, but also have some internal self testing. This is good, but also something to understand. An old GFCI would not self trip if it fully failed and it may or may not be resettable even if failed. A modern GFCI will trip itself and can't be reset if it can no longer act as a GFCI.

 

[Malcontent]

Question about GFCI receptacles: have they changed at all in the last 20 years?

I am in the process of preparing for a new aquarium in the same location as my old aquarium. The old aquarium is gone so this is an opportunity for improvements. When the old tank was installed 20 years ago I had two GFCI receptacles installed. I'm having an electrician install an additional GFCI receptacle next week. Should I have him replace the old GFCI receptacles with new ones? Not sure if they are less reliable after many years of use or if the technology has changed in the last 20 years. Thanks!

I like the GFCIs with audible trip alarms so I don't find out when my freezer thaws, etc.

Move the old ones to replace other non-GFCI receptacles.

 

[Freenow54]

GFCI looks for imbalance between hot and neutral.

Induced voltage is not a theory, it is basic physics.

Fault current (frayed wire example) represents leaked current and will trip the GFCI.

Induced voltage/current is "work" being done. It doesn't matter where that current goes, the GFCI can't see it.

just that another person disagrees did not want to get stuck on the outside looking in and not getting an answer. So there is no protection I don't know where you stand on ground probes but in this case you are still if your hand is in the tank in a potential difference zone am I correct ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Induced voltage is not a theory, it is basic physics.

Basic or not, calculating induced fields was about the limit of my enjoyment of physics in college. lol After that it quickly lost any sort of intuitive rationale in equation after equation.

 

[BeanAnimal]

just that another person disagrees did not want to get stuck on the outside looking in and not getting an answer. So there is no protection I don't know where you stand on ground probes but in this case you are still if your hand is in the tank in a potential difference zone am I correct ?

If somebody disagrees, they don't understand what they are talking about.

Fault current is an actual fault, where the current is coming from the actual conductors in the circuit. So, damaged insulation, a short to water, a cracked heater, etc. If the circuit is on a GFCI, that fault should be detected and it should trip, especially if there is a ground probe in place. Fault current has the potential to be the same magnitude as the source driving it. So a 120V 20A circuit can drive 120V @ 20A into fault... actually far more instantaneously before it trips the circuit breaker. That is why GFCIs are so important -- they limit the fault current to a few mA and a few AC cycles.

Induced current is not a fault. It is just electromagnetic coupling from pumps and motors and cords. Nothing is “leaking,” so a GFCI has nothing to detect, ground probe or not.

Can induced current give you a tingle? Yes.
Is it usually dangerous in aquarium setups? No. The voltage is high but the available current is very low because it is induced from very contextually small sources with poor coupling and high impedance.

Note: Mains voltage is also "Induced" current from the generating station. The difference is the scale of the magnetic field used to induce it and thea generator is designed to be tightly coupled low impedance.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Basic or not, calculating induced fields was about the limit of my enjoyment of physics in college. lol After that it quickly lost any sort of intuitive rationale in equation after equation.

You are describing my understanding of stoichiometry....

 

[RobertK]

Yes, they have changed over the last 20 years. They are less prone to nuisance tripping, but also have some internal self testing. This is good, but also something to understand. An old GFCI would not self trip if it fully failed and it may or may not be resettable even if failed. A modern GFCI will trip itself and can't be reset if it can no longer act as a GFCI.

Good to know, thanks Bean! I will replace old with new.

 

[Freenow54]

You are describing my understanding of stoichiometry....

Thank you I was only referring to induced voltage As a theory in this instance. I believe if memory serves you stated that the magnet acts like a generator. When I was in AC trade school the instructor drilled induced voltage into us . This was his example. I forget the gauge of the wire of the extension cord involved. Easy enough to calculate but I am too lazy. A 100 foot cord plugged into a 120 receptacle because of induction ( resistance load ) Vacuum pump witch draws AC lines into the Micron Range . Only gave you 97 volts at the load ie burning out the pump possibly . I forget the amperage that can freeze you and kill you giving you enough time to refect on your stupidity is a fraction of an amp. That's my limit I think. I loved my physics teacher he gave us one question on an exam . A little nerve racking which is why I use the word Theory. Was going to go to university I wanted to be a crew member with Jacques Cousteau Cousteau . As a marine biologist. My guidance councilor disagreed

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thank you I was only referring to induced voltage As a theory in this instance.

The primary voltage drop in that example isn’t from induction, it is from resistance in the long wire. The AC motor is frequency driven. It sees lower voltage and tries to maintain RPM by drawing more current. The extra current is what overheats or destroys the windings.

Induction and resistance are two very different things.

 

[Freenow54]

The primary voltage drop in that example isn’t from induction, it is from resistance in the long wire. The AC motor is frequency driven. It sees lower voltage and tries to maintain RPM by drawing more current. The extra current is what overheats or destroys the windings.

Induction and resistance are two very different things.

Yes sorry long time since trade school