Aquarium and electrical safety
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Assuming you haven’t checked already, it would be wise to test the GFCI on that circuit!
— if the outlet the tank is plugged into on that circuit actually goes dead, then you can logically assume that non-GFCI outlet is indeed wired in series from the GFCI outlet!
Unfortunately, it’s rarely this simple with electrical… the best bet here will be involving an electrician, and empirically testing everything as mentioned above…
— just assuming all is well because a (less sensitive) breaker isn't tripping can be dangerous; both for you, and your livestock! (The latter can be susceptible to copper contamination from bare wires in contact with saltwater, for example!)
The as I call it ARC protections job is really to me to protect the actual circuit from causing a fire . If someone wants to correct me please jump in. Also a GFI will not trip if current leaks into the Aquarium water . It represents an incomplete circuit
As stated by others and not fully understood by myself the answer was yes
KJoFan
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Bringing this back up. The electrician was back today to test tank equipment, nothing jumped out as being obviously faulty based on the readings he recorded.
Seems possible that there are enough small changes in current from the things like powerheads ramping up and down, that it can occasionally add up to enough to trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker.
Unfortunately the electrician will not resolve it by installing a regular breaker and a GFCI receptacle instead. He said due to liability that that combo could still zap me to death.
I'm at a loss of how to resolve this. I can't split up the return pump, powerheads and skimmer as they all run off the same system (Maxspect Lagoon aquarium with built in controller and power). The only critical equipment I can split off are the heaters. But, that's not helpful when the rest go down due to the breaker tripping.
Seems possible that there are enough small changes in current from the things like powerheads ramping up and down, that it can occasionally add up to enough to trip the AFCI/GFCI breaker.
Unfortunately the electrician will not resolve it by installing a regular breaker and a GFCI receptacle instead. He said due to liability that that combo could still zap me to death.
I'm at a loss of how to resolve this. I can't split up the return pump, powerheads and skimmer as they all run off the same system (Maxspect Lagoon aquarium with built in controller and power). The only critical equipment I can split off are the heaters. But, that's not helpful when the rest go down due to the breaker tripping.
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I don't understand how that change will zap you to death. I doubt it will resolve your problem as I can't see it from here.
This should not trip your GFI unless something is wrong with your equipment.
(Master Electrician 50 years)
I will stay out of the GFIC Disscusion since you have an electrician posting ( I got him mad at me last time ) . However the point of it is to keep you safe . I when I maintain the tank am simply going to have the dangerous stuff power heads and heater , and anything else that can harm you plugged into a or more if needed three way plug and simply pull them out maybe do the same when feeding , also possible to use a separate power strip /bar to make it even easier ( just a toggle switch ) , I also read that surge protection can leak voltage as they are rated usually for 400 volts ( some 700 I wonder if that can cause nuisance trips . I am going to find out as I am adding whole house protection that is easy to install , and inexpensive ,, but still a panel mount and I cant afford a slip up in my situation. I am also going to add surge plugs on all my sensitive stuff that has 12 / 24 volt control TV , TV box , Refrigerator, Stove , ( mines gas ) , PC , My three aquarium set ups , Microwave , Sound equipment. Right or wrong its a done deal . Was encouraged by the Meat , and maybe Bean animal was talking about Generators as well. But a foolproof way to stay alive by the disconnection idea to me . If someone wants to chime in great
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GFCI trip threshold is ~6 mA
Various devices can have tiny amounts of leakage current or capacitive losses the look like leakage to the GFCI.
Any single devices contribution to the budget may not trip the GFCI, but the combined leakage may be enough to push it close to the threshold and a device with poor power factor or high inrush current may push it past, causing a nuisance trip.
Your electrician‘s explanation is dumb, but he is correct in stating that the AFCI can’t be removed and replaced with GFCI only. Code requires the AFCI in most rooms now.
What he can do is replace the AFCI/GFCI breaker with an AFCI only model, and then add multiple parallel GFCI receptacles in the fish room, allowing you to split critical loads onto different GFCIs.
Did you ask the electrician to tell you if the trips were AFCI or GFCI?
Per the breaker you showed.
Square D HOM120PDFC dual-function AFCI/GFCI (CAFCI + GFCI).
Per the Square D docs:
How to tell what caused the trip on this breaker:
Look at the Indicator light (small LED window):
Red blinking = GFCI trip
Amber/yellow = blinking AFCI trip
Solid red = Self-test failure or breaker failure
No light = Overcurrent (thermal/magnetic) trip or breaker off
I think of you already reset from last trip you can still see by pressing test and looking at the led.
Various devices can have tiny amounts of leakage current or capacitive losses the look like leakage to the GFCI.
Any single devices contribution to the budget may not trip the GFCI, but the combined leakage may be enough to push it close to the threshold and a device with poor power factor or high inrush current may push it past, causing a nuisance trip.
Your electrician‘s explanation is dumb, but he is correct in stating that the AFCI can’t be removed and replaced with GFCI only. Code requires the AFCI in most rooms now.
What he can do is replace the AFCI/GFCI breaker with an AFCI only model, and then add multiple parallel GFCI receptacles in the fish room, allowing you to split critical loads onto different GFCIs.
Did you ask the electrician to tell you if the trips were AFCI or GFCI?
Per the breaker you showed.
Square D HOM120PDFC dual-function AFCI/GFCI (CAFCI + GFCI).
Per the Square D docs:
How to tell what caused the trip on this breaker:
Look at the Indicator light (small LED window):
Red blinking = GFCI trip
Amber/yellow = blinking AFCI trip
Solid red = Self-test failure or breaker failure
No light = Overcurrent (thermal/magnetic) trip or breaker off
I think of you already reset from last trip you can still see by pressing test and looking at the led.
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I would do a load calculation for your Tank. It may not be Arc Fault or Ground Fault at all. It may just be a simple overload tripping your breaker. Also, is this a dedicated Circuit for your Tank or are there other outlets on it? I would also have all the connections checked to make sure they are tight.
KJoFan
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I did not and can't recall if they mentioned it or not. If they did, I didn't retain that information.
I don't have the original AFCI/GFCI breaker (they kept it when they removed it last visit), but I could check the other AFCI/GFCI breaker that I moved the aquarium to in order to test if it was specific to that one breaker or both AFCI/GFCI breakers.
If they replaced the AFCI/GFCI breaker with just AFCI and then installed multiple GFCI receptacles wouldn't everything still go down if the tripping is caused by the AFCI? The breaker would still trip and shutdown all outlets anyway. Not to say there shouldn't be multiple outlets anyway, but I'm not processing how that would resolve my issue.
They did a load calculation last time and overload isn't an issue.
Yes, this is a dedicated circuit just for the tank, no other outlets on it.
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See above — a combo breaker should indicate why it tripped.
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What exactly is the issue here?
Should people not be allowed to ask questions or engage in conversation?
May the site should just be a static FAQ with a “If your exact answer is not here, Google it”
If you are unhappy with the conversation, leaving the room is an option.
I am confused on timeline here. Has the issue occurred on two different breakers? One way or another other, if the system is currently on an AFCI/GFCI the read the code next time it trips.
It would prevent single point GFCI dependence. It would also mean maybe a different AFCI. But that is why we need to first determine if AFCI or GFCI is tripping it.
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They may have done a load calculation, however the question is was it done correctly? Heaters for example that are turned on have large inrush current before the element heats up. Startup current for AC Pumps also is an example. If the load is correct, then I would have the breaker replaced.
It's not that simple, there are a lot of different scenarios that can come into play especially when you add grounding probs into the mix. (Which IMO are completely unnecessary on properly protected circuits/outlets).
Throw a UPS backup after the GFCI and you now have 120v current that the GFCI does nothing to protect you from, another situation that many overlook.
gfci does not protect against fire and thinking it will is giving you a false sense of safety. They may but are not designed for that, and the more equipment on a single gfci the more likelihood of false tripping and issues.
Us reefers tend to have a LOT of stuff running on a reef tank, a lot of times on the same outlet. Many don't have a clue what a GFCI or ACFI is and just assume the outlet their fish tank is plugged into is good to go...until its not.
KJoFan
Valuable Member
Here's the timeline as best I can put it together:
- 12/6 - possible trip of AFCI/GFCI breaker (not
sure on this one)- First trip on 12/11 for sure
- Tripped on 12/12
- Moved return pump to different GFCI protected only circuit on 12/16
- Tripped on 12/17
- 12/24 to 1/4 tank on regular breaker with GFCI outlet - no trips
- 12/24 to 1/4 EB832 powering heaters, ATO pump and filter roller on second AFCI/GFCI circuit - no trips
- put tank on other AFCI/GFCI circuit on 1/4 and EB832 on GFCI only circuit used from 12/24 to 1/4 by tank as test
- AFCI/GFCI breaker tripped on 1/5 (different circuit than in December.
- Put everything back the way it was from 12/24 to 1/4 on 1/5 through 1/13 - no trips
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