Aquarium Myths and Misinformation

[Paul B]

by that logic you should be able to grow a 10” tang in a 40 breeder,…. I think there is more to it than bio-load; I’ve seen fish grown out in tanks too small for the species,

I am certainly not an expert on fish growth but in my experience different fish will grow in small tanks and some will be stunted. I have kept small goldfish in small tanks for years and they remained about an inch long. I can catch those goldfish in a lake a foot long.

My first Hippo tang lived in a 40 gallon tank for almost 5 years and stayed about 4". They get to almost a foot in the sea, but by the same token I have put a few local flounders and sea robins in my reef and in no time they get huge and seemingly do not get stunted at all in a tank. So I feel different species differ in their growth criteria. But thats just my experience and not a fact.

We know from experience that certain fish may do poorly in tanks which have stray voltage.

This may be true. Once many years ago I noticed all my fish acting strange. They were all just laying there shivering with their mouth open.

After I removed my Electric Eel, they were fine.

 

[Crustaceon]

This is another good example of how guideance can become absolutes and then supposed myths. I keep a wide range of acropora - some of them will absolutely suffer at 81 degrees and others don't mind at all. Saying "acropora" is just too general and way too general to fight about. Some acropora are going to die at much over 82 - period. Some people don't have those. It is not a myth. It is just a small sample size.

Some think that SPS means all types of SPS when you can often separate acropora from MBP&S.

I see it as an odds thing based on what most reefers normally have access too. Cali tort, Garf Bonsai, Green Slimer, Red Planet, etc. I've kept MANY different types of acros including really sensitive varieties at higher temps with no problem. Yes, there could be a circumstance where a rapid increase from 76 degrees to 84 would cause an issue in some acros. The fact is, my tanks usually stay around 80 degrees most of the year and only gradually spike up to 86. I think my corals are conditioned to how my tanks generally run temperature-wise. We always say stability is king when it comes to sps. So is temperature stability, but IME it doesn't mean even sensitive corals can't thrive in warmer tank environments where in the wild, reef temperatures frequently exceed 85+ degrees. This typically isn't a quick temp shift in the wild either. If you want to make an argument for coral death with let's say a heater failing and spiking temperature within the span of a day, sure. But I just don't see these issues on a seasonal temperature change basis. And yes, a deep water acro is likely not going to do well in a 86 degree tank. Again, I'm speaking odds as a generalization considering most acros kept are not that ultra-rare deep water 76 degree-only specimen. There's also a thing with this hobby were "what if" suddenly becomes "all the time".

 

[Lebowski_]

I don't doubt @Jay Hemdal 's point about mangroves. I did a non-scientific test on my wife's planted tank and found that you very rigorous, fast growth (something like putting a dozen photos cutting's roots in the tank) to really see a large impact on nutrients. I can't imagine a slow growing, slightly dead and dusty mangrove is going to do anything at all for the water qaulity. Maybe if you had a high tech mangrove hydroponic set up with dozens of them growing...otherwise, there seem to be much better alternatives.

With that being said, the mangroves do look cool!

 

[jda]

That is another pretty good myth that deep water acros are from deep water. Deep water acropora live and are collected from the same places that other acros are from, which is usually on one breath in water less than 3-5 meters.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That is another pretty good myth that deep water acros are from deep water. Deep water acropora live and are collected from the same places that other acros are from, which is usually on one breath in water less than 3-5 meters.

You may notice, I did not really focus on "myths" related to corals - that's because I'm mostly a "fishhead", I manage staff that DO maintain coral, and I do have a basic grounding in that, but I'm not a "coral guru", so I stay in my fish lane (grin).

Jay

 

[alton]

Since we are talking Myths I raised guy in two years from a 2" juvenile to a large adult in my 120 office tank

Truth I ordered a sub adult from an LFS that owed me credit to go in my 180 and the wholesaler sent this 10" + monster. The store had no room for it so I kept it in a 100 gallon rubbermaid tub till it ate and then traded it to another LFS for credit. Ended up holding it in my 120 office tank till the LFS opened that day when I took this picture.

 

[Freenow54]

Stray voltage is a bit of a misnomer, should be called induced voltage, often from AC motors in the aquarium. That has been implicated in all sorts of fish health issues, but has never been actually proven to cause any issues at all.

Jay

Not so sure. In some cases would it not just be the salt being a conductor when the intrinsical seal has been compromised? That is what caused my power bar meltdown ( salt water ). My skimmer overflowed allowing salt water to run down the cord ( that is why for anyone reading is why a drip leg is necessary U.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Not so sure. In some cases would it not just be the salt being a conductor when the intrinsical seal has been compromised? That is what caused my power bar meltdown ( salt water ). My skimmer overflowed allowing salt water to run down the cord ( that is why for anyone reading is why a drip leg is necessary U.

But - in that case, there is an electrical short to ground. Those CAN cause issues, both for human safety, as well as for the fish. Seawater with an active short to ground can undergo electrolysis, which forms sulfate precipitates. I've had fish die from that.

Jay

 

[Freenow54]

But - in that case, there is an electrical short to ground. Those CAN cause issues, both for human safety, as well as for the fish. Seawater with an active short to ground can undergo electrolysis, which forms sulfate precipitates. I've had fish die from that.

Jay

Which is why I suggested people get on board with ARC protection devices which I think was overlooked from my previous post. This is from a master electrician not from my little noggin

 

[Paul B]

Actually seawater with an active short to ground will trip the breaker....And I am a Master Electrician. But retired, thank God.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Actually seawater with an active short to ground will trip the breaker....And I am a Master Electrician. But retired, thank God.

Alway? Even a partial short? I’ve had electrolysis going on in a tank where the circuit breaker never tripped. This was years before GFIs….
Jay

 

[Paul B]

Good morning Jay. Electrolysis is not a short. In electrolysis the "electricity" is being used or consumed by doing "work" even though it may not be the type of work we want it to do. A short is when the power isn't really performing any work and just goes back to the power company.

Your circuit breaker didn't trip because some of those 15 or 20 amps that can flow through that breaker were being used in the process of Electrolysis. (or heating the water) The "electricity" doesn't care if it is making waste electrolysis, heating your toaster, running your pump or your hair drier, not that I know what that is.

The breaker most likely also won't trip if there is a live wire in your tank (with no ground probe) and you put your hand in there to feed your favorite yellow tang some nori because you then become the load. You have resistance and if you stay alive long enough, you would heat up and become the toaster.


There really isn't anything we can call a "Partial" short as any time power is running in wires and it goes straight to ground or the neutral without doing any sort of "work" it will always be between 108 and 120 volts and it will try to use all the "amps or watts" that it can get through that wire. Of course thats where the breaker comes in and trips

If it were not for that breaker, that house wiring would melt almost instantly all the way back to the panel and I have seen that happen a few times. Sometimes the house burns down

 

[PeterErc]

BRS SAYS…

 

[Wasabiroot]

As a member of the tang police, I was enthusiastically nodding my head in agreement while reading the section on huge fish thriving in small tanks.

Reminded me of another common myth: People with purple/scopas/hippo/etc. tangs in a 40g breeder actually getting a bigger tank or rehoming the fish when it’s time (if at all).

Not gonna lie, I'm not sure where or how you read huge fish are thriving in small tanks in this article. It's the myth itself that they thrive or do well and the title of the section. My interpretation I got was they will continue to grow regardless and are happy when transferred to a tank that suits their size, not that they are thriving.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Edit add this is the disease forum but…Some of my pet peeves:
- any light other than blue causes algae: OR “whiter/yellower the light = more algae….
IMHO is parroted from Aquarist from the “post Radium” era whom never had to light their tanks with non-blue bulbs…had you cut your reefing teeth on 6500K Iwasaki bulbs, you don’t buy it…
There is “some” truth to this but its misdirected blame, dismissive of the fact corals reefs are lit by 5500K natural sunlight anyway……True photosynthetic plants favor some higher wavelengths (hence “blurple” & Full spectrum), but nature (oceans/reefs) compensates with lower nutrients levels and herbivores, which IMO should be the focus….

- Reef tanks need to be heated to 78F, another over parroted over valued parameter. Seems “chasing “this number gets a pass (and sells heaters)….and IMO heaters are a wasted outlet and unneeded risk for any home with a thermostat… I get the idiom “stability is the key” I think its just overstated in this case. Maybe 78F is optimal over say 74F, just not convinced how much value vs risk it has….I’ve dispensed with heaters over a set house thermostat, haven’t looked back…

- Reef safe with “caution” /Expert only …frankly this is a misapplied generalization if not outright stupid…. some fish simply ship poorly or recover poorly or are improperly fed/housed … Worse is misinformation that some fish need to be in groups (Idols, chromis cardinals, et) …., I think Reef safe with “caution” needs to specify if the danger is to inverts or corals or both
….I think the tag “Expert only” is misapplied universally/liberally to fish whose husbandry/diet requirements are either misunderstood or not widely known …often times its applied to fish that simply are sold in poor shape

I agree for the most part! I see the white light thing a lot with algae. The bottom line is they are billions of years old and thrive in just about any lighting. Their "job" has been "convert light to growth" for eons. So... Cutting white light is not addressing the source of algal growth sufficiently, which is typically elevated nutrients, not enough maintenance, or an insufficient cleanup crew.

I don't necessarily agree regarding expert only - though I feel it's somewhat useless as each species has unique needs. But there are absolutely species being sold that are suited for an institution or wholly inappropriate for the average hobbyist like batfishes, pygmy seahorses, leafy dragons, etc etc and while "expert" is too simplistic it certainly conveys they aren't for new fishkeepers. I do wish that they would be for sale on inquiry only, rather than a "good luck, this fish is gonna die" which is where the "expert" label becomes pointless since sales will be made to buyers with minimal preparation.

 

[Wasabiroot]

There is also evidence of tolerance in corals to temperature swings if they have experienced them in the past. So, while a captive tank may be fine to 86, that may also be because they have slowly adapted to those temperatures, and a wild colony of that same coral may experience mortality in the same temp.

 

[Doctorgori]

I agree for the most part! I see the white light thing a lot with algae. The bottom line is they are billions of years old and thrive in just about any lighting. Their "job" has been "convert light to growth" for eons. So... Cutting white light is not addressing the source of algal growth sufficiently, which is typically elevated nutrients, not enough maintenance, or an insufficient cleanup crew.

I don't necessarily agree regarding expert only - though I feel it's somewhat useless as each species has unique needs. But there are absolutely species being sold that are suited for an institution or wholly inappropriate for the average hobbyist like batfishes, pygmy seahorses, leafy dragons, etc etc and while "expert" is too simplistic it certainly conveys they aren't for new fishkeepers. I do wish that they would be for sale on inquiry only, rather than a "good luck, this fish is gonna die" which is where the "expert" label becomes pointless since sales will be made to buyers with minimal preparation.

putting a finer point on that is some of the so called “expert only” fish have statistically poor survival rates due to common stressors and poor handling/diet before their final home. In some species, that survival rate would go up if even basic space and dietary needs are met that are peculiar to that fish; Idols, Regal angels, seahorses, et; being reasonably hardy but requiring some “specialized” but not particularly difficult care

There is also evidence of tolerance in corals to temperature swings if they have experienced them in the past. So, while a captive tank may be fine to 86, that may also be because they have slowly adapted to those temperatures, and a wild colony of that same coral may experience mortality in the same temp.

Yes, and the other problem with high tank temps is that the amount of O2 is limited, whereas the Ocean has a unlimited supply of gas even when the amount of saturated gas is “locally” limited by temperature…
Another point often missed is the compounding effect of die off vs O2 depletion in a closed system … IME over 86F is risky ….
I think locking your tank in at the alleged “ideal” temp of 78F is a number not worth chasing…

 

[Wasabiroot]

putting a finer point on that is some of the so called “expert only” fish have statistically poor survival rates due to common stressors and poor handling/diet before their final home. In some species, that survival rate would go up if even basic space and dietary needs are met that are peculiar to that fish; Idols, Regal angels, seahorses, et; being reasonably hardy but requiring some “specialized” but not particularly difficult care



Yes, and the other problem with high tank temps is that the amount of O2 is limited, whereas the Ocean has a unlimited supply of gas even when the amount of saturated gas is “locally” limited by temperature…
Another point often missed is the compounding effect of die off vs O2 depletion in a closed system … IME over 86F is risky ….
I think locking your tank in at the alleged “ideal” temp of 78F is a number not worth chasing…

Good point. Seahorses just need low current and constant food. If you take your time beforehand, no reason you can't be successful. Heck, @Dr. Dendrostein has success with Nepthea/difficult softies but I would argue not "expert only"...just requires a very specific setup and discipline (not bashing at all, love his stuff)


Also, mb for helping derail to non fish myths... @Jay Hemdal excellent stuff as usual. Can I ask a pointed question? How confident are you in the HLLE / carbon causal relationship? What is the biggest roadblock, to wider adoption? My speculation is the utility carbon provides makes the average reefer hesitant to cut it from their setup if the situation warrants it. If carbon is run, should we avoid lignite type (ie cheaper)? Sorry for the questions- can get clarification from other works by you I'm sure

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Good point. Seahorses just need low current and constant food. If you take your time beforehand, no reason you can't be successful. Heck, @Dr. Dendrostein has success with Nepthea/difficult softies but I would argue not "expert only"...just requires a very specific setup and discipline (not bashing at all, love his stuff)


Also, mb for helping derail to non fish myths... @Jay Hemdal excellent stuff as usual. Can I ask a pointed question? How confident are you in the HLLE / carbon causal relationship? What is the biggest roadblock, to wider adoption? My speculation is the utility carbon provides makes the average reefer hesitant to cut it from their setup if the situation warrants it. If carbon is run, should we avoid lignite type (ie cheaper)? Sorry for the questions- can get clarification from other works by you I'm sure

The HLLE / Carbon connection was proven by our study, which was preceded by a month by the Disney study which found the exact same thing as we did - using lignite carbon causes HLLE in tangs. My additional studies (not peer reviewed) shows that the same carbon causes HLLE in other susceptible species. Diet changes did nothing, neither did grounding the tanks. Pelleted carbon did not cause visible lesions, but those fish also had microscopic lesions visible during histopathology.

So - why do some fish not get HLLE even when exposed to carbon? Three reasons: 1) not a susceptible species, 2) the tank has good export of particulate organic carbon (the carbon fines) - this can be protein skimming, mechanical filtration or even filter feeding inverts, or 3) the dose of carbon was very low, and/or a better grade of carbon was used. Very often, you will not see HLLE in a good reef tank, even when lignite carbon is used. Put a lot of lignite carbon in a reactor in a fish-only tank though, and watch out!

Are there other causes of HLLE? Perhaps, but these haven't been demonstrated in scientific studies yet.

Jay

 

[Paul B]

Are there other causes of HLLE? Perhaps, but these haven't been demonstrated in scientific studies yet.

Although carbon may or may not be the only cause, captivity is the key. Fish in the sea don't get it. But of course we don't use carbon in the sea.