Are Captive Bred Fish More Susceptible to Diseases?

[Wildreefs]

You literally implied it right here! How else does one take the quote velvet and ich free? Also you said millions with 0 cases so again you doubled down on your stance in the same post!

I dont know what else to say, he also quoted dr fish (misinformation, not a doctor either) and said he said captive bred fish is non existent with ich, then in another post he said he just had a bad order with dr reef , never again.

 

[Wildreefs]

Did your biota order come with ich? Because that is the only relevant info to this argument.

Probably not, how would I know? I dont claim to have a microscope not know how to use one. I bet half the people on here that do watcher a YouTube video and think there good to go.

i wish the fish did have ich, and that was the only battle. All my fish go thru 14 days of copper, 2.2 or higher , no dips, drops or cross contamination. They survived that, then decided to not eat and soon die. Give me velvet too when they come, I can stop that with copper, but ich isn’t what’s killing then, poor designed breeding, bacterial, or something everyone will continue to guess at while spending 100s of dollars on them

 

[Wildreefs]

I must have missed the part where I said 100% of any venders fish will arrive parasite free. Probably missed that because I never said it. Of course ich will slip through eventually when a mistake is made. Why would anybody think differently? I just had an order with drreef completely screwed up to the max, I will never order from him again. I was making a point that people qt for a living to add to my argument that ich can be killed. We were arguing about wether ich can be killed. Next time you make an incredibly rude statement to somebody, better make sure you get your facts right. And since this entire argument was about wether you can rid a fish of ich, do you think proper treatment can rid a fish of ich?

You said it a million times. But I get it you joined the forum in the last two years and have read enough bro testimonials to be an expert

 

[Wildreefs]

Just because any fish received from an aquaculture facility don’t have signs or symptoms of ich upon arrival is not evidence that they are ich free!

We both need to stop. Kinda feel bad for the guy now .

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I dont know what else to say, he also quoted dr fish (misinformation, not a doctor either) and said he said captive bred fish is non existent with ich, then in another post he said he just had a bad order with dr reef , never again.

What does me having a bad experience with dr reef have to do with him noticing his biota fish don’t come with ich?

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

I have nothing against you, but you are spreading misinformation when you say ich cannot be erraticated. I’m sorry but it is true and everybody reading this knows it.

Literally nobody has come to your aid saying that ich can be eradicated yet multiple of us have given you valid information showing the opposite. We aren’t saying you can’t control ich, or velvet and keep their levels from effecting your livestock we are just saying completely eradicating it is impossible if we could there would be no need to quarantine, dip, medicate, utilize UV none of that would be necessary.

 

[Wildreefs]

I must have missed the part where I said 100% of any venders fish will arrive parasite free. Probably missed that because I never said it. Of course ich will slip through eventually when a mistake is made. Why would anybody think differently? I just had an order with drreef completely screwed up to the max, I will never order from him again. I was making a point that people qt for a living to add to my argument that ich can be killed. We were arguing about wether ich can be killed. Next time you make an incredibly rude statement to somebody, better make sure you get your facts right. And since this entire argument was about wether you can rid a fish of ich, do you think proper treatment can rid a fish of ich?

Incredibly rude statement? Where? By pointing out you are contradicting yourself and using sources who you later say you won’t buy from again. And my argument was the fish suck, not that they come with some unkillable variant of crypto .

 

[Lionfish hunter]

This entire argument was about wether you can cure ich. Which you clearly believe ich can be cured, like every other person who knows anything.

Probably not, how would I know? I dont claim to have a microscope not know how to use one. I bet half the people on here that do watcher a YouTube video and think there good to go.

i wish the fish did have ich, and that was the only battle. All my fish go thru 14 days of copper, 2.2 or higher , no dips, drops or cross contamination. They survived that, then decided to not eat and soon die. Give me velvet too when they come, I can stop that with copper, but ich isn’t what’s killing then, poor designed breeding, bacterial, or something everyone will continue to guess at while spending 100s of dollars on them

 

[Wildreefs]

What does me having a bad experience with dr reef have to do with him noticing his biota fish don’t come with ich?

How does he know? And I don’t know, if a contractor messed up my kitchen and did damage and left me, I doubt I would calling him the future asking him for basement advice

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Incredibly rude statement? Where? By pointing out you are contradicting yourself and using sources who you later say you won’t buy from again. And my argument was the fish suck, not that they come with some unkillable variant of crypto .

The conversation you’re picking my quotes from is entirely about wether ich can be erraticated. Once again on the comment right before yours, he said again nobody is coming to my aid about ich not being able to be erraticated.

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

This entire argument was about wether you can cure ich. Which you clearly believe ich can be cured, like every other person who knows anything.

Now you are moving the goal post my friend the argument has always been that you feel ich in your words can be eradicated and that biota or aquaculture fish are completely disease free that is what we have been discussing. We agree ich can be treated and that fish can recover from it but we don’t agrue that you can have a 100% disease free system.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

How does he know? And I don’t know, if a contractor messed up my kitchen and did damage and left me, I doubt I would calling him the future asking him for basement advice

Fair point but I have purchased parasite free tangs from biota, 5 of them. I have a lfs that has ich in every tank with copper and has a cb system with no copper and has never gotten ich.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Now you are moving the goal post my friend the argument has always been that you feel ich in your words can be eradicated and that biota or aquaculture fish are completely disease free that is what we have been discussing. We agree ich can be treated and that fish can recover from it but we don’t agrue that you can have a 100% disease free system.

Dude you keep saying a fish with ich cannot be cured, they can! end of story. Do you think ich can be cured from a fish?

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Literally nobody has come to your aid saying that ich can be eradicated yet multiple of us have given you valid information showing the opposite. We aren’t saying you can’t control ich, or velvet and keep their levels from effecting your livestock we are just saying completely eradicating it is impossible if we could there would be no need to quarantine, dip, medicate, utilize UV none of that would be necessary.

THIS you said ich cannot be erraticated, this is why I keep telling you you’re wrong. This is what I said you’re spreading misinformation on.

 

[MnFish1]

When did I say I have heavily stocked small tanks? My last tank was a 75 gallon with 1 lion fish in it, no other fish. Had a 235 cycling but he had plenty of room. He got ich from live rock I got from petco(boy that was dumb). He died. 125 gallon before that with only 2 clowns, yellow tang, flame angel, and blue tang. It got ich, and would have killed them if I didn’t cure it. Probably one of the most under stocked tanks of anybody on here. I have open aquascape in all aquariums so the fish have maximum room. And now I have a 235 gallon aquarium that is and always has been ich free. Everything is quarantined for 52 days. And I have never been more happy with an aquarium. No ich management, nothing to worry about, they just stay healthy. But my tanks are not small nor over stocked.

You said something about Ich multiplying rapidly in tanks as compared to the open ocean. I didn't say or mean to imply you had a small or overstocked tank. I was saying - you're right - the stocking density in any aquarium is higher as compared to the ocean - and can lead to much more rapid outbreaks of CI, etc.

 

[Wildreefs]

Fair point but I have purchased parasite free tangs from biota, 5 of them. I have a lfs that has ich in every tank with copper and has a cb system with no copper and has never gotten ich.

So if you can’t see it, it’s not there? Got it!

Funny how someone can not qt anything, stop adding stuff, then 6 month later it appears, whom impossible by your standards.

I don’t claim to know everything, I certainly don’t and it’s getting to the point I’d rather not. I just use common sense and when i see contradictions, I call it out.

I have spoken with most of not all the qt vendors out there. At least 10 you’ll see on here and competing forums.
I have at one time or another pointed out something they were doing in their methods that didn’t make sense,
Was dangerous, and she enough they changed.

whether it was slow dripping prazi pro to lessen the bloom effect, when in reality this doesn’t get the concentration to 2.5 mg/l because by the time the final amount is in, the initial doses have become inert, or doing water changes and waiting til after the new water was in to redose copper, or why the 30 days of in tank coppers if faulty if one truly believes ich can hatch out after 70 plus days. Literally 5-6 guys said 30 days of copper in tank and take coral out and sit 76 days fallow. Makes no sense, If I’m fighting the longer than 30 day variant, and going 76, what’s 30 of copper going to do other than waste time? Nothing.
When guys said 2-3 years ago to go to 1.76 copper, when the instructions clearly state 2.5, that also made no sense and they eventually changed it, but how many people did the 1.75 thing and later felt like they wasted there time and hoped for the best? I’ve been using 2.2 to 2.5 for years now, if the fish can handle it , why try to reinvent the wheel and waste time not treating enough

 

[Whiskeyboy84]

You said it a million times. But I get it you joined the forum in the last two years and have read enough bro testimonials to be an expert

This was funny cuz it’s true I have been keeping reefs since 2016 member here since 2017 and honestly I barely post or say anything but on subjects like this that are in my educational wheelhouse I don’t mind trying to set the record straight from time to time. I don’t try to act like I know a lot and chime in on every post like some do just where I feel I can add substance to the conversation I actually spend more time reading peoples threads about builds and why they implemented this or that and how the system responded I like to get people ls opinions on different methods and approaches as well as how gear has held up for them. I’m this case there is a lot to be said about maintenance vs prevention on disease control but if you go back and read my initial statement that got this guy going it was about pro’s and con’s of wild caught vs aquaculture he just zeroed in on my comment about disease not being 100% eradicated by aquaculture scenarios.

 

[Wildreefs]

You said something about Ich multiplying rapidly in tanks as compared to the open ocean. I didn't say or mean to imply you had a small or overstocked tank. I was saying - you're right - the stocking density in any aquarium is higher as compared to the ocean - and can lead to much more rapid outbreaks of CI, etc.

Compared to the ocean, 1 fish in a 90 gallon tank, a wrasse say, is considered overstocked. Took a bio class and said the life to water ratio in the ocean was something like a frag of coral in a swimming pool. Let’s assume a 3 inch frag to at least 15,000 gallons of water in a pool. Probably less now with all the coral die off across the planet .

 

[Wildreefs]

This was funny cuz it’s true I have been keeping reefs since 2016 member here since 2017 and honestly I barely post or say anything but on subjects like this that are in my educational wheelhouse I don’t mind trying to set the record straight from time to time. I don’t try to act like I know a lot and chime in on every post like some do just where I feel I can add substance to the conversation I actually spend more time reading peoples threads about builds and why they implemented this or that and how the system responded I like to get people ls opinions on different methods and approaches as well as how gear has held up for them. I’m this case there is a lot to be said about maintenance vs prevention on disease control but if you go back and read my initial statement that got this guy going it was about pro’s and con’s of wild caught vs aquaculture he just zeroed in on my comment about disease not being 100% eradicated by aquaculture scenarios.

Id say he’s in left field, but that might be too close

 

[Lionfish hunter]

So if you can’t see it, it’s not there? Got it!

Funny how someone can not qt anything, stop adding stuff, then 6 month later it appears, whom impossible by your standards.

I don’t claim to know everything, I certainly don’t and it’s getting to the point I’d rather not. I just use common sense and when i see contradictions, I call it out.

I have spoken with most of not all the qt vendors out there. At least 10 you’ll see on here and competing forums.
I have at one time or another pointed out something they were doing in their methods that didn’t make sense,
Was dangerous, and she enough they changed.

whether it was slow dripping prazi pro to lessen the bloom effect, when in reality this doesn’t get the concentration to 2.5 mg/l because by the time the final amount is in, the initial doses have become inert, or doing water changes and waiting til after the new water was in to redose copper, or why the 30 days of in tank coppers if faulty if one truly believes ich can hatch out after 70 plus days. Literally 5-6 guys said 30 days of copper in tank and take coral out and sit 76 days fallow. Makes no sense, If I’m fighting the longer than 30 day variant, and going 76, what’s 30 of copper going to do other than waste time? Nothing.
When guys said 2-3 years ago to go to 1.76 copper, when the instructions clearly state 2.5, that also made no sense and they eventually changed it, but how many people did the 1.75 thing and later felt like they wasted there time and hoped for the best? I’ve been using 2.2 to 2.5 for years now, if the fish can handle it , why try to reinvent the wheel and waste time not treating enough

Ive had them for years, with a blue tang, a sailfin tang, a queen angel, and a moorish idol. All of them for years no ich. Are you seriously telling me all this tangs symptom free for years could have ich? That is hilarious.