Are ppl not doing QT helping or not helping the fish keeping hobby?

[littlebigreef]

There comes a turning point for some reefers where a catastrophic loss forces you to QT. Call it, a lesson learned. Other folks can be perpetually lucky - good for you! But, all it takes is one fish with Velvet or Oodinium to blow up a tank.

I have a dedicated 40gal QT tank for fish. Everything goes through QT. I just conditioned a squad of 8 carpenter’s wrasses for 5 weeks. All survived and came out fatter and happier for it.

I’ve enough money in my display, I’m not putting any of my guys at risk by dropping in a new fish. Some I’ve had for years… I owe them that discretion.

Coincidentally, I QT all of my corals as well and it’s paid dividends in recent years.

So, folks can argue one way or the other but the goal should always be to minimize risk as much as possible. Everyone’s tolerance for risk is different but objective appraisals should supersede subjective sentimentalism. Fish encounter varying amounts of meds at all points in the chain of custody, another 5 weeks won’t hurt. By the same token you’re not gonna ‘toughen up’ your existing collection’s immune system by introducing an unquarantined fish.

 

[BeanAnimal]

No its not. Where are you getting that its common practice? In people its common to over prescribe them in unnecessary cases, but its not someone that people are doing as a preventative for bacterial infections (at least in the Western world)

It is becoming common in the hobby.

Pre-operative and post-operative antibiotics are by definition and practice prophylactic and used every single day in the western World for humans and pets.

Moreover, antibiotic prophylaxis is also common every day in the western world for various reasons from possible exposures, to bug bytes, people with immune deficiencies, those with HIV, the elderly, newborns, those with severe heart problems, those on chemotherapy, people who have donor organs or who are missing organs, those who are on large insulin dosages for diabetes. those with sickle cell anemia, etc.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That isn't on me to prove. Its on the person making the claim that something exists (i.e. that its stressfull)

That is not how it woks. You offered your opinion as well and therefore are both in the same boat from where I stand.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I QT For observation. I don’t medicate till I see an actual need.
but I always qt everything

I think this is likely the norm for those who do QT. It is easy enough for most people and doesn’t require s procedures, testing or know;edge.

as far as the effect of new people, I think most new people are more likely to stress their tanks with too many fish , in smaller tanks ,and situations that facilitate spreading of any infections is more likely in general. Plus I think more experienced fish buyers eliminate many problem fish by not purchasing them in the first place

Good observation, but sadly there are is no shortage of ‘more experienced’ people who have strokes of dumb like that like to advise the new people… this forum and social media are full of them.

 

[Coach v]

No its not. Where are you getting that its common practice? In people its common to over prescribe them in unnecessary cases, but its not someone that people are doing as a preventative for bacterial infections (at least in the Western world)

I had acl knee reconstruction 7 days ago. Before I went under, they put antibiotics in my iv.

 

[Paul B]

I had acl knee reconstruction 7 days ago. Before I went under, they put antibiotics in my iv.

I have had 8 shoulder and 8 knee surgeries along with a new knee and a new shoulder. I also got antibiotics pre surgery. But we are not fish. I believe if we wanted to replace a knee, shoulder or acl on a fish, we should administer antibiotics. But for just about everything else, I feel antibiotics would be counter productive as fish should never get infections. If they do, it was our fault, not the fish.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Reefing 20yrs. Fortunate to have access to quality livestock and a lot of luck. However, took a while, but It did run out lil over 3 years ago. Velvet. Fast onset and quick emergency setup, fish removal and copper, saved 2 fish from the lot. Heavy losses. Nvr again. Ran a fallow reef to break the cycle. All my fish since have been through QT vendors such as @tsmaquatics. Ty guys. Haven’t looked back. Other vendors as well. I just can’t drive to them.

 

[EricR]

There's silly people like me who QT fish (well, HTTM) and non-coral inverts (properly) but don't QT corals -- just dip and remove as much frag plug/disc as possible.

Lucky SO FAR but my plan for if/when catastrophe happens is:
Buy every coral I'll ever want and run fallow before next fish,,, then never buy another coral.
...uhhh,,, yeah,,, I'm sure that'll play out

 

[Hallowhead]

I started out without QT, lost some fish, then I moved to a copper QT and lost more fish due to copper stress.

I then didn't do any qt and lost 300 dollars of fish due to infection upon entry.

I now do an observation at and treat accordingly.

It's a mess, but how often do you get new fish?

 

[KrisReef]

I have had 8 shoulder and 8 knee surgeries along with a new knee and a new shoulder. I also got antibiotics pre surgery. But we are not fish. I believe if we wanted to replace a knee, shoulder or acl on a fish, we should administer antibiotics. But for just about everything else, I feel antibiotics would be counter productive as fish should never get infections. If they do, it was our fault, not the fish.

Obviously you didn’t have a proper QT experience in your youth to prevent those shoulder and knee injuries that could have been avoided if you had?

Perhaps a month in proper copper treatment would have saved you the trouble of getting antibiotics later in life.

We’ll never know. Certainly the medical field has benefited from having you as a patient for their treatment experiments and hopefully we will all benefit greatly from what was learned by the doctors who treated you.

 

[0ttr]

As I've heard said before: those who don't QT have never lost a tank full of fish or corals, those who do have been through that kind of experience. To wit: The last two times I've had mail order fish arrive I've been very careful about drip acclimation and the whole effort and seen one fish die inside the warranty period and one fish that looked like it had an issue a day after it arrived and then get better then die a week out of the warranty period. Not from a QT shop... or at least not one that makes a big sales point out of it. So what's my take? I have plans to set up a QT tank, but I fortunately have the space and budget to do so.

 

[Paul B]

Obviously you didn’t have a proper QT experience in your youth to prevent those shoulder and knee injuries that could have been avoided if you had?

If I knew, I would have eaten some earthworms a few times a week. It has worked for my fish for over 50 years so how bad can it be?

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Obviously you didn’t have a proper QT experience in your youth to prevent those shoulder and knee injuries that could have been avoided if you had?

Perhaps a month in proper copper treatment would have saved you the trouble of getting antibiotics later in life.

We’ll never know. Certainly the medical field has benefited from having you as a patient for their treatment experiments and hopefully we will all benefit greatly from what was learned by the doctors who treated you.

Back in @Paul B s day, single cell life was emerging from the primordial soup of what we call an ocean today. Sry Paul. Lob ball there.

 

[KrisReef]

If I knew, I would have eaten some earthworms a few times a week. It has worked for my fish for over 50 years so how bad can it be?

I thought everyone eats them, don't they?

 

[Paul B]

Back in @Paul B s day, single cell life was emerging from the primordial soup of what we call an ocean today. Sry Paul. Lob ball there.

Thats ridiculous. I am not that old. I used trilobites to start my tank and still use them for my CUC.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Thats ridiculous. I am not that old. I used trilobites to start my tank and still use them for my CUC.

Are they Precambrian? Burgess Shale?

 

[jda]

The folks who advocate that no marine fish should be collected for any reason often cite the massive losses for fish from inexperience, disease, poor care, LFS selling to people who don't have the right kind of homes. etc. The deaths and then the cavalier attitudes about just getting another Dory are what they point to. If you can QT, or not, I don't really care as long as you don't lose fish.

 

[Rusty_L_Shackleford]

In a sense, both. It's been that way since it's inception. Personally I do an observational qt and medicate if necessary. Besides heater induced tank crashes, having all their fish wiped out by disease is a leading cause of people quitting the hobby. I mean if I had an ich outbreak or something my clowns are the only fish I could catch without dismantling the entire tank, which would probably lead to coral losses.

People sticking with the hobby leads to more the hobby overall growing and more options available for everyone. I got back into the hobby a year ago after almost a decade out and the tools available now compared to when I got out are absolutely amazing. The flip side of that is that when people quit, you can pick up gear for a song...which is how I got my tank to get back in.

 

[tsmaquatics]

Reefing 20yrs. Fortunate to have access to quality livestock and a lot of luck. However, took a while, but It did run out lil over 3 years ago. Velvet. Fast onset and quick emergency setup, fish removal and copper, saved 2 fish from the lot. Heavy losses. Nvr again. Ran a fallow reef to break the cycle. All my fish since have been through QT vendors such as @tsmaquatics. Ty guys. Haven’t looked back. Other vendors as well. I just can’t drive to them.

Thank you for the Support!

We have definitely seen a rise of new local customers "doing things right" after getting stung by the shops in the area that seem to be working with the same supplier... prioritizing sales and taking advantage of new or unknowing hobbyist definitely knocks some out of the hobby. There are even vendors posting fish right from the airport as "fully quarantined".
Information is key and some lessons are learned hard, no process is 100% but researching is the best medicine whether you want to QT or not.


P.S. We have some small Red sea regals on request this month! We'll keep you posted!

 

[Rob Romalino]

Do you HAVE to QT fish? Nope. Do you have to look before crossing the road? Nope. But judging from the number of Facebook posts I see every week about someone having a sick fish, it kinda seems like eventually your luck will run out. Are QT fish more expensive? Obviously! Our test kit a TSM Aquatics costs about $5,000 and reagents about $1,000/month. Do some of our imported fish come in clean? Yes. Do some come in with Ich, Velvet, Brook, etc... Yup and that's why we prophylactically treat upon delivery, observe, medicate and scrape. Sure, you can buy a fish a lot cheaper at Petco, but to that I will say cheap is not always cheap, but that's your call. Do some fish stores treat with copper? Yes, but do they have test kits that measure within a reliable margin of error of therapeutic levels? I doubt most do. just my 2 cents.