Are pride and hard work dead?

[TheEngineer]

"Better" for the consumer is subjective ... each consumer has their own determination of what is better for them. Nobody has the right to determine what is better for another person and impose their will on them, so long as the product meets design and manufacturing standards. You don't see Mercedes and BMW threatening the the Asian car manufacturers everyday because they adapt German technologies.

I think you're missing the point. Making something similar is very different from outright copying.

 

[Diesel]

That doesn't matter, the occupants still get from point A to point B ... it is their choice.

and in that the free market is 100%

If I import 3 million IT labor from China and let them replace the US market IT guys for 75% les in pay check......... free market and it's already happening as we speak.

 

[aslmx]

But none of them look like a Mercedes or BMW's

I don't know? Those Hyundais are gettn purdy close.

 

[Streetcred]

I think you're missing the point. Making something similar is very different from outright copying.

I'm not missing the point, my understanding is that there is enough 'discrepancy' in the Jebao design to warrant the extinguishment of the claim of breach.

 

[TheEngineer]

I'm not missing the point, my understanding is that there is enough 'discrepancy' in the Jebao design to warrant the extinguishment of the claim of breach.

Having not read the patent application, please do tell what you believe are discrepant differences.

 

[Streetcred]

and in that the free market is 100%

If I import 3 million IT labor from China and let them replace the US market IT guys for 75% les in pay check......... free market and it's already happening as we speak.

You cannot physically import "3 million IT labor from China" but there is nothing to prevent you from using IT to work remotely from anywhere in the world. Blame the hypocritical metrosexuals from Silicone Valley for the plight of US IT workers ... same people that maintain and support the Washington status quo. But let's not get political.

 

[Streetcred]

Having not read the patent application, please do tell what you believe are discrepant differences.

In respect for the owners of this forum, I won't cross-post but you can track down the opinion at Reef Builders and Advanced Aquarist.

 

[Diesel]

You cannot physically import "3 million IT labor from China" but there is nothing to prevent you from using IT to work remotely from anywhere in the world. Blame the hypocritical metrosexuals from Silicone Valley for the plight of US IT workers ... same people that maintain and support the Washington status quo. But let's not get political.

I just gave a sample here and never was political.
The point is if Jeabo wants this to the market than set the market price the same as Maxspect but stealing a design and undercutting it isn't free market.

 

[bevo5]

I'm going to twist yalls brains. This wasn't the first place on the Internet to discuss reefing. Yet here we are. Should we all leave and go back to the aol chat rooms of the 90's??

There are always levels of similar products and people vote with their dollars. thats what keeps companies innovating. They have to offer something better than the copy cats or they'll die. Competition is good business for us hobbyists on many levels.

 

[cmcoker]

It is exactly free market.
Free market capitalism: A system of economics that minimizes government intervention and maximizes the role of the market

 

[Streetcred]

I just gave a sample here and never was political.
The point is if Jeabo wants this to the market than set the market price the same as Maxspect but stealing a design and undercutting it isn't free market.

Diesel, "Maxpect" is owned by Guangzhou Maiguang Electronic Science Technology Co., Ltd., d.b.a. Maxspect.

Let them duke it out amongst themselves ... it can only be good for consumers in the long run.

 

[Diesel]

Diesel, "Maxpect" is owned by Guangzhou Maiguang Electronic Science Technology Co., Ltd., d.b.a. Maxspect.

Let them duke it out amongst themselves ... it can only be good for consumers in the long run.

Yes I know that, but thanks for pointing it out.

 

[TylerS]

Companys have legal means to protect themselves from being copied. The U.S. government set the patent system up to encourage risk taking and innovation. It's the companies own fault if they aren't taking advantage of the USPTO resource. Here it looks like Maxspect is going to try to enforce their patent (if issued), which they should be.

However companies should also be out engineering their competitors via quality and design to justify the higher prices. If I as a customer can't tell the difference between the $300 pump and $150 pump, then that's a big problem for the maker of the $300 pump. R&D doesn't double the cost of a pump...

In respect for the owners of this forum, I won't cross-post but you can track down the opinion at Reef Builders and Advanced Aquarist.

Just FYI, I believe a single violation of a single claim will infringe on a patent.

 

[4FordFamily]

In short, to answer the original question from the op, largely yes.

 

[Diesel]

In short, to answer the original question from the op, largely yes.

Case closed.

 

[Eric G]

Wow,was that English?

Are pride and hard work dead? I dont even kno where to begin with this hobby, some people ben here for over 20 30 years and understand were im comming from. This hobby was completely different 8 years ago were i prob never payed more then 40 bucks for a nice colony of anything plus we would trade frags just incase something happened no matter what it was op or 500$ efflo or w.e, now people pay 20 dollars for a mariculture that they sell for 400$ for a pinky nail is what took my pride and dignity out of this hobby, all of us worked and busted our behinds to grt were we are now and some still struggling, some manufactures go threw years of research to get where they are now but no matter what company theyve all ben ripping eachother off with designs and innovation but thats just how life works, if its cheaper and reliable to me ill take it regardless the limit of to what these company take it to, they all compete with eachother

 

[jan4scuba]

Just my 2 cents, but how is the hobby to keep growing if the younger people who will be the future hobbyists can't afford to get into it because they can't afford to spend $300 dollars on a pump or $500 on a light fixture?

Without new blood this will become a stale hobby without innovation and creativity. Maybe it stops someone who could have made a major breakthrough from doing just that because they couldn't afford to start out.

It's hard to be a part time capitalist. You are either for a free market system or you're not. This shouldn't be an elitist hobby. It should be open to anyone who wants to enjoy what we are so passionate about. These "innovative" companies with their breakthrough products need to take a long hard look at the global marketplace. Outsourcing is a way of life and has been for years. They can't make all their profits solely on the backs of their customers. They need to have some responsibility on controlling their costs as well.

And BTW besides the recovery of R&D does anyone really know what the profit margin on some of this overpriced equipment really is? I bet it would astound everyone.

Someone in an earlier post mentioned the Hyundai as an example. I totally agree. Personally I found it hard to buy a new BMW when I can get much more car by buying a Kia. I have both currently and yes I know they drive differently but I gotta tell you the BMW doesn't even offer some of the amenities at any price that the Kia comes with as standard equipment. Not to mention the quality and cost of ownership.

Hard to feel sorry for these companies when you see some of the prices they can get away with.

I will leave my rant on dime size frags for $400 for another post. I guess this was more like a 50 dollar speech rather than a 2 cent rant. Thanks for listening and I hope I haven't offended anyone's sense abilities.

 

[Sabellafella]

Wow,was that English?

Not sure maybe, maybe not. Not sure what you ment by that and im not smart but i know what common sence is and i kno a sneak thief company or person when i see one

 

[blackdogal73]

Anybody remember this?

 

[DurocShark]

Remote IT workers from overseas would be very viable if there wasn't such a language and accent barrier. Right now that is the equivalent of the generally lower quality of the knockoff products in the hobby.

I have an IT support guy I just hired that lives in Idaho. The company corporate office is in Orange County, CA. Yet he's worth every penny of his 60c on the dollar I'm paying him vs someone here in OC.

I also have Jebaos. Been running them since day one of my return to the hobby. I had a Hydor that didn't last for crap, and the wireless sync of the Jebaos was totally worth it. They're cheap and have been working great. I can't justify the insane amount of money the high end items want for what is basically an electric motor with a propeller. Same with my lighting. Would high end stuff look cooler? Of course. Is that worth the premium I'd pay? No.

I'll let the companies deal with the legalities and patents. Customs turns away entire containers of stuff that's been banned due to patent infringement every day. Get an injunction, get your competitor's products stopped at the dock, if you have a provable case.