Are pride and hard work dead?

[Justiful]

I

Now this I had apparently missed along the lines or just didn't know. The jebao I have is the last one I will buy. I can't support someone stealing like that. I'll by a Tunze or MP next time.

Considering Gyre has HORRIBLE quality on their version, I think a competitor is needed. I considered it for about 30 seconds until I started reading reviews.

 

[runzwithscissors]

December 24, 2015
SENT VIA EMAIL ONLY
Re: U.S. Patent Application Publication No. 2015/0292507 A1
Title: CROSS-FLOW WAVE MAKING PUMP
By: Guangzhou Maiguang Electronic Science Technology Co., Ltd., d.b.a. Maxspect
Sheridan Law Ref. 81151.0001
Dear Sirs:
Guangzhou Maiguang Electronic Science Technology Co., Ltd., d.b.a. Maxspect (hereinafter “Maxspect”) is the owner of a utility patent application, which includes claim coverage directed to a cross-flow wave making pump. As a reference, enclosed is U.S. Patent Application Publication No. US 2015/0292507 A1.

I note from two articles in ReefBuilders.com that industry intelligence indicates that Jebao Co., Ltd. or related entities have designed and may offer a Jecod CP-45, a Jecod CP-25, or other related equipment which is described and illustrated as a “Cross-Flow Wave Pump”. As a reference, enclosed are copies of the two articles as well as a portion of the website at the aboveidentified URL. This equipment may ultimately infringe one or more claims of the pending patent application of the above-identified U.S. patent application publication. Under the provisional rights provisions added to the Patent Act in 1999, a claimant can recover damages (after the patent issues) if it gives notice to the target of the claims after the pending application is published. See, 35 USC 154(d).

At this time, Maxspect would be pleased to discuss various options to provide you with the ability to avoid liability for infringement under provisional rights provisions related to the above-identified patent application. If you are of the opinion that you do not need to take any action at this time with Maxspect, it would be helpful if you could give us some insight into your reasons. Infringement may occur through making, using, or selling a product in conflict with the claims of the above-identified patent application publication. Maxspect may elect to seek damages from one or both of sellers or manufacturers of infringing products.

Please contact me at your earliest convenience to address this matter.

Sincerely,

James A. Sheridan Sheridan Law LLC


If I was Maxspect, Tunze or Ecotech I would go a step further and if a qualified Dealer from either Maxspect, Tunze or Ecotech sells the knockoffs they should be dropped as a dealer of their products.
Jeabo can bring their own product on the market but if they do so not a whole lot of ppl would buy them.

The word "Application " should be highlighted. Many applications for patents are not issued. According to the email, no patent has been issued. Not saying it won't be.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

The word "Application " should be highlighted. Many applications for patents are not issued. According to the email, no patent has been issued. Not saying it won't be.

+1 , though I do like the idea behind it.

 

[JasReef]

those dedicated to providing us new and innovative technologies?

It would be helpful if you stated exactly who you think this is but make no mistake, businesses are dedicated to putting money on their bottom lines first and foremost.

Blatantly ripping off products is something for the courts to decide but in these situations it is mostly going to be the consumer who wins. These kinds of things help keep prices in check. I am a consumer and I like to save money whenever possible. I also like to have a choice to budget according to my needs.

Why don't we see this kind of outrage over selling "kalkwasser" for 20.00 when I can go to the walmart and buy the same thing called pickling lime for a fraction of that price? What about cleaning magnets? Would you want the original maker to be the only one to manufacture them and be able to charge outrageous prices for them? The only thing I am sure of is these businesses are "dedicated" to taking as much money as possible from me so I can enjoy my hobby.

Oh yea, happy new year!

 

[chomoney]

We all hate Jebao for making cheap tunzes, but we all love Julian Sprung while he puts grocery store seaweed and fancy packaging and marks it up 10x. Makes sense, right?

 

[that Reef Guy]

Business is business, I guess. But, I too have a certain distain for profiteering in this hobby, be it licensed garage level fish & frag hustlers who hurt local brick & mortar retail stores, or manufacturers who knock off their competitors products, or snake oil salesmanship. There's no Reef Consumer Protection Agency unfortunately. The closest thing may be our local reef clubs where advertising dollars do not temper the candor or consensus.

Why don't you like people that sell coral?

I think that is great for the hobby.

LFS's tend to not have high end stuff.

Collectors get it grow it and sell it spreading it around to those that would not have it otherwise.

I see this as a great thing for the hobby.

 

[that Reef Guy]

yup. business. Captain America was made in Canada. Superman in Australia. Amazon sells stuff for the tank at less than wholesale that my friends LFS can buy it at.
What can you do. Its become the American culture of the free market.

How can you get stuff less than wholesale on Amazon?

Where do they get it then?

Please show some links to Proof of this because I don't buy it.

 

[chomoney]

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the discontent with copying designs and taking advantage of someone else's work. But, there is a flip side to keeping this hobby going.

I got into reefing in high school. It was still expensive, but doable with a job. $1200 for two lights, $1200 for two power heads, $600 for a return, plus all the other costs make it impossible to get in, and scares folks away who even can afford it. There has to be some kind of middle ground if we are to keep this hobby going.

 

[mcarroll]

How can you get stuff less than wholesale on Amazon?

Where do they get it then?

Please show some links to Proof of this because I don't buy it.

PM

 

[jasonandsarah]

My Wav's look awfully similar to "other" pumps and they charge an arm and a leg! Imo they're not that great either. Little bit of algae and all of a sudden they loose half their power(kinda like the Wp series) I wish I would of kept my Gyre for sure.
But on the other hand like others have said, I think Maxspect could have made a higher quality product. Also Where's the control ability they promised? If anything good comes out of this I hope it at least give Maxspect a little kick in the butt. I loved the Gyre but....(not even going to bring up the initial problems) the plastic is thin and flimsy, pita to clean, very little control ability and I would have been happy to pay even a little more to get these things! Price wasn't really much of an issue with the Gyre imo, I mean it takes the place of 2-3 other "high end" pumps.

 

[runzwithscissors]

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the discontent with copying designs and taking advantage of someone else's work. But, there is a flip side to keeping this hobby going.

I got into reefing in high school. It was still expensive, but doable with a job. $1200 for two lights, $1200 for two power heads, $600 for a return, plus all the other costs make it impossible to get in, and scares folks away who even can afford it. There has to be some kind of middle ground if we are to keep this hobby going.

It isn't a design patent. They have applied for a "cross wave water wave making pump" patent. It's what the pumps do, not the actual design.

"This invention relates to a cross-flow wave making pump comprising an impeller shell forming a water intake and a water outlet, an impeller assembly pivotally connected to two ends of the impeller shell, and a motor used for driving the impeller assembly; wherein, the impeller assembly comprises an impeller used for driving a liquid flow, a first turntable and a second turntable respectively fixed at two ends of the impeller, wherein the first turntable is provided with a shaft rotatably mounted in the impeller shell, the second turntable is provided with a cavity used for receiving a rotor shaft of the motor. The embodiments of the present invention can provide a sufficient liquid-circulation in a container, and significantly reduce the dead zone where the liquid flows extremely slowly." Quoted from the application


If this is issued, even mp40 manufacturers would be in violation.

 

[that Reef Guy]

My Wav's look awfully similar to "other" pumps and they charge an arm and a leg! Imo they're not that great either. Little bit of algae and all of a sudden they loose half their power(kinda like the Wp series) I wish I would of kept my Gyre for sure.
But on the other hand like others have said, I think Maxspect could have made a higher quality product. Also Where's the control ability they promised? If anything good comes out of this I hope it at least give Maxspect a little kick in the butt. I loved the Gyre but....(not even going to bring up the initial problems) the plastic is thin and flimsy, pita to clean, very little control ability and I would have been happy to pay even a little more to get these things! Price wasn't really much of an issue with the Gyre imo, I mean it takes the place of 2-3 other "high end" pumps.

Anybody know if you will be able to control the Gyre on your Phone/Computer in the future like you can with Vortechs?

 

[Jlobes]

My Wav's look awfully similar to "other" pumps and they charge an arm and a leg! Imo they're not that great either. Little bit of algae and all of a sudden they loose half their power(kinda like the Wp series) I wish I would of kept my Gyre for sure.
But on the other hand like others have said, I think Maxspect could have made a higher quality product. Also Where's the control ability they promised? If anything good comes out of this I hope it at least give Maxspect a little kick in the butt. I loved the Gyre but....(not even going to bring up the initial problems) the plastic is thin and flimsy, pita to clean, very little control ability and I would have been happy to pay even a little more to get these things! Price wasn't really much of an issue with the Gyre imo, I mean it takes the place of 2-3 other "high end" pumps.

LOL. takes the place of 2-3 other pumps, but doesnt work half as well, aside from all the issues you mentioned. so, it doesnt really replace them, does it?

 

[jasonandsarah]

LOL. takes the place of 2-3 other pumps, but doesnt work half as well, aside from all the issues you mentioned. so, it doesnt really replace them, does it?

Yeah but a lot of them are just things I think should have been better. Like making the plastic cages a little sturdier and coming out with the dang stand alone controller they've been talking about forever.
I wasn't trying to talk down on the Gyre as I'm actually in the process of switching back and this time I'm actually thinking about adding 2. I'm that guy that always looks for the newer better thing, even when sometimes I find out the old thing was working perfectly. At least for my system and coral health. [emoji3]

 

[monsterup]

I think these big companys make so easy for us to look at knock off products due to the outrageous price.

 

[Jlobes]

I think these big companys make so easy for us to look at knock off products due to the outrageous price.

define outrageous price? R&D on innovative products isnt cheap, take many prototypes, cad drawing, engineering, etc....but ripping off someones design is much easier and cheaper.

 

[Flashy Fins]

If I was Maxspect, Tunze or Ecotech I would go a step further and if a qualified Dealer from either Maxspect, Tunze or Ecotech sells the knockoffs they should be dropped as a dealer of their products.
Jeabo can bring their own product on the market but if they do so not a whole lot of ppl would buy them.

Might as well hang a sign on the door of the LFS that says, "Shop Amazon and eBay, where you can buy the cheap stuff we don't carry." No LFS wants to push their customers further toward online purchasing.

How can you get stuff less than wholesale on Amazon? Where do they get it then? Please show some links to Proof of this because I don't buy it.

They get it from the same place, most often for the same price. Their business model, which is unlike anyone else's, includes them taking a loss on some items. It's a larger topic than is worth getting into here, but google for more info on their business model if you are curious. Full disclosure, I work for a company that sells several manufacturers' products to Amazon (unfortunately for me, none of them aquarium related).

I once asked my LFS owner how much it would cost to order a particular light fixture. I showed him it was around $115 on Amazon (I was willing to pay a little more through him, but not substantially more). He was upset to see the price and showed me his price list from the manufacturer, which listed the fixture around $135 wholesale. Some manufacturers have a set price you cannot advertise lower than, but that does not mean you cannot sell it for less than that amount. When you spot something online that requires you add the item to your cart to see the price, this is the most likely reason. My LFS owner realizes he can't compete on certain items, but he also knows Amazon cannot compete with him for livestock, many food items, and a few other things. Both can exist and profit, although not everyone will be happy with it.

 

[Jlobes]

How can you get stuff less than wholesale on Amazon?

Where do they get it then?

Please show some links to Proof of this because I don't buy it.

+1 to what flashyfins said.

also, many wholesalers operate with the buy more, save more program, usually grouped in amount categories. So, if you buy 100+ you get a much better price/discount than if you buy 1-10. or even 20-50.

so, the LFS that only has shelf space/money/demand for a few items, ends up paying much more than a larger retailer(amazon, BRS, etc). That trickles down to the consumer paying more and the small retailer making less profit.

 

[Diesel]

LOL. takes the place of 2-3 other pumps, but doesnt work half as well, aside from all the issues you mentioned. so, it doesnt really replace them, does it?

Yes you can through APEX if you have the Gyre box for it.
You can copy any wave mode from any pump or design your own and control it from your phone.

 

[Flashy Fins]

In my case, and I'm sure many others, these knockoffs aren't hurting ecotech or maxspect. They are hurting Hydor, as I used Korallias before the wp series pumps, and I'm sure that's what would be in my tank.

Same for me. I had koralia pumps before Jebao. Once I put a WP in my tank, I was wowed! Never going back to koralia. Was never in the market for the high end pumps to begin with. While there is some customer overlap, the target customers are from entirely different income brackets between low end and high end equipment.

I appreciate the advances these companies have made, and I think if you can afford it, great, please support them. But many people are not able for whatever reason. some of us can only afford the volkswagen, not the BMW no matter our tastes.

While I'd much rather have a Volkswagen than a BMW ;), I agree with this point, too.

Many people buy expensive name brand aquariums, because they can afford them and want something stylish. I buy the dollar a gallon tanks because I only have so much to spend and need some money left to purchase livestock. My purchasing cheap tanks does not affect sales at Innovative Marine or Red Sea, because I was never a potential customer for them in the first place. If those were the only tanks offered, I would've never gotten into the hobby.

Many of us simply cannot afford high end, and if someone has the opinion we are wrong for that, they should ask themselves if they feel reefing should be exclusive to the wealthy. If so, I find it impossible to care how they feel about me buying a Jebao pump.