Artificial reef sand?

[revhtree]

Please remember to be nice and respect one another. Thanks.

 

[Timfish]

Do you have any evidence to suggest that only ocean-sourced aragonite sand (calcium carbonate CaCO3) will harbor “biofilms and endoliths and other stuff”, and man-made calcium carbonate CaCO3 will not?

Nope. Cost is the main reason. Naturally ocurring aragonite or coral sand will also have magnesium carbonate which will certainly be a benefit. The adhesives used to make granular caclium carbonate seems to me would be an inhibitor to endoliths and bioeroders, and there's the question of what happens long term to these adhesives in a reef environment.

Additionally . . .

Corals may also make calcite and vaterite as well as argaonite and those I suspect will almost certainly be found in reef substrates to some extent. Seems we could go down a pretty deep rabbit hole "discussing" the pros and cons of differing naturally occuring ratios and whether these ratios should be artifically altered.

 

[jDoSe]

Nope. Cost is the main reason. Naturally ocurring aragonite or coral sand will also have magnesium carbonate which will certainly be a benefit. The adhesives used to make granular caclium carbonate seems to me would be an inhibitor to endoliths and bioeroders, and there's the question of what happens long term to these adhesives in a reef environment.

Additionally . . .

Corals may also make calcite and vaterite as well as argaonite and those I suspect will almost certainly be found in reef substrates to some extent. Seems we could go down a pretty deep rabbit hole "discussing" the pros and cons of differing naturally occuring ratios and whether these ratios should be artifically altered.

Thanks for the explanation!

Is the substrate linked from Grainger earlier (probably) considered to be the granular calcium carbonate held together with adhesives you are referring to? (I know it’s hard to guess without knowing exactly what it is.)

The other one comes from a quarry and “ancient” sea bed. That one would probably be better, right? (I’m not sure I like how they call it marble though, it could just be marble rubble. Still hoping on an aragonite option vs calcite, even though i believe both are CaCO3.)

(Glad there are some still trying to help with the majority trying their hardest to derail the thread lol!)

 

[Dcal]

(Glad there are some still trying to help with the majority trying their hardest to derail the thread lol!)

huh

everyones trynna help you

 

[Crevalle]

Man made and perfect for goldfish tanks. You’re welcome.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the explanation!

Is the substrate linked from Grainger earlier (probably) considered to be the granular calcium carbonate held together with adhesives you are referring to? (I know it’s hard to guess without knowing exactly what it is.)

The other one comes from a quarry and “ancient” sea bed. That one would probably be better, right? (I’m not sure I like how they call it marble though, it could just be marble rubble. Still hoping on an aragonite option vs calcite, even though i believe both are CaCO3.)

(Glad there are some still trying to help with the majority trying their hardest to derail the thread lol!)

Here is a link - that explains the difference between calcite - dolomite and etc. For the rest of you who haven't been ignored by the OP(I found it interesting):

Aquarium Chemistry: Calcite, Aragonite, Limestone, and More

It's been said a million times that aragonite helps buffer aquarium water, or helps maintain calcium concentrations, while other (carbonate) substrates do not. However, to the best of my knowledge this simply isn't true.

reefs.com

 

[Timfish]

Thanks for the explanation!

Is the substrate linked from Grainger earlier (probably) considered to be the granular calcium carbonate held together with adhesives you are referring to? (I know it’s hard to guess without knowing exactly what it is.)

The other one comes from a quarry and “ancient” sea bed. That one would probably be better, right? (I’m not sure I like how they call it marble though, it could just be marble rubble. Still hoping on an aragonite option vs calcite, even though i believe both are CaCO3.)

(Glad there are some still trying to help with the majority trying their hardest to derail the thread lol!)

Sorry but you're just going to have to research your questions yourself. Your thread tweeked my curuiosity as I've seen calcium carbonate in a 2-3 mm pellet so I did a quick search on granualted calcium carbonate and found the link I put in the hyperlink in my previous post. I would caution you as mined products may be mostly calcium carbonate but the heavy metals present may be a slow, or quick, death for your animals depending on the concentrations. FWIW I'm sticking with what the corals live with in nature.

To go off topic, since you ssem to me to be pretty new to reef keeping here's some videos by scientists on what really is important for a healthy reef system:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[jDoSe]

Sorry but you're just going to have to research your questions yourself. Your thread tweeked my curuiosity as I've seen calcium carbonate in a 2-3 mm pellet so I did a quick search on granualted calcium carbonate and found the link I put in the hyperlink in my previous post. I would caution you as mined products may be mostly calcium carbonate but the heavy metals present may be a slow, or quick, death for your animals depending on the concentrations. FWIW I'm sticking with what the corals live with in nature.

To go off topic, since you ssem to me to be pretty new to reef keeping here's some videos by scientists on what really is important for a healthy reef system:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

Hello, thanks for the info, but I am not new to reef-keeping and none of this information is new or relevant to the discussion at hand.

Using non-standard substrates is definitely not for beginners. Beginners should just grab a bag of caribsea and call it a day.

Eventually though, someone may want something else. I have tried dozens of standard sands over decades and am looking to give something new a try.

By linking those videos, are you saying that the type of dry substrate composition has a significant and large impact on “microbes” in the aquarium? If so, that part would be new to me. (Assuming of course it isn’t leeching anything harmful.)

 

[MnFish1]

Hello, thanks for the info, but I am not new to reef-keeping and none of this information is new or relevant to the discussion at hand.

Using non-standard substrates is definitely not for beginners. Beginners should just grab a bag of caribsea and call it a day.

Eventually though, someone may want something else. I have tried dozens of standard sands over decades and am looking to give something new a try.

By linking those videos, are you saying that the type of dry substrate composition has a significant and large impact on “microbes” in the aquarium? If so, that part would be new to me. (Assuming of course it isn’t leeching anything harmful.)

Since - many experienced reefkeepers use bare bottom tanks - I would humbly suggest - that the substrate make absolutely no difference - whether 2 mm spheres of diamonds, quartz, aragonite or anything else. I'm trying not to sound snarky - but this entire thread has turned my stomach to a degree. If only you would explain WHAT you're trying to achieve. Because if you've tried every kind of 'sand' and not had 'success' - it seems like there is another issue - which you're not discussing. Best wishes

 

[Timfish]

. . . I am not new to reef-keeping and none of this information is new or relevant to the discussion at hand . . .

How foolish of me.

 

[Reefing102]

So from reading everyone’s posts, it would seem that no, there is no man made sand, however potentially acceptable substitutions.

And forgive my ignorance, but I do believe, regardless of where it came from, ALL aragonite based sand will contain dead corals, snails, shells, etc regardless of size or how filtered or sieved, or whether it is mined from live rock (dead corals and other inverts) or produced “naturally” through fish digestion of said coral, shellfish, etc. I don’t have any research to back it up but yea, just my 2 cents. I am in the boat of curiousness as to the why, but understand you don’t want to post it.