Avoiding the ugly stage?!?

[Tamberav]

So I was filling my water up for a water change and my TDS meter is reading 1 PPM, I remember when I first filled my water up it was reading 0 PPM and sometimes 1 PPM, So could it be my RODI, I don't really think that the 1 PPM would be making that much of a difference.

No, I change mine around 2 TDS.

It’s just normal part of having a newer tank to get that brown stuff

 

[56longroof]

I used real live rock and RBS live sand and still had a ugly phase. Mostly bryopsis and a short diatom phase. I think it's just part of the process and shouldn't be rushed.

 

[Exotrezy]

New tanks get diatoms because of sand silicate and triggered by light. It's normal and it goes away easily. Older tanks may get diatoms if their RODI has silicates in it due to dirty filters. High levels of phosphate may cause diatoms but I find this to be rare. Many people including myself run successful tanks with elevated phosphate levels and have no diatoms issue at all. My phosphate sits around .4 ppm. You just need to be doing weekly water changes especially on a small tank. 15% per week. Siphon your sand.

Ok thanks

 

[Exotrezy]

No you don’t need one. They can annoy corals and steal food. They are ornamental. Basically you can get one if you like the looks and don’t mine their negatives of stealing food and stomping on things but they are not going to clean your tank.

The person sounds like they just want to sell you stuff.

No he said that he doesnt have the cleaner or fire shrimp right now, he said if I want I can go buy them for a different person so I dont think he is just trying to sell me stuff. He said they clean everything so they will help me if my fish have any disease or etc.

 

[Exotrezy]

No, I change mine around 2 TDS.

It’s just normal part of having a newer tank to get that brown stuff

Ok. Thanks for the help. I will make sure to keep up with my water changes

 

[X-37B]

I used real live rock and RBS live sand and still had a ugly phase. Mostly bryopsis and a short diatom phase. I think it's just part of the process and shouldn't be rushed.

Yes you get algae growth when using live rock. If properly controlled with cleanup crew early its minimized and shorter lived.
The tank matures much faster too.
My system 8 months is starting with 150lbs live rock.

 

[Tamberav]

No he said that he doesnt have the cleaner or fire shrimp right now, he said if I want I can go buy them for a different person so I dont think he is just trying to sell me stuff. He said they clean everything so they will help me if my fish have any disease or etc.

This is false, the only disease they may help a little with is flukes. They are no help for velvet or ich.

They mostly just greedily eat the food you feed. They are fun to watch but have drawbacks like annoying corals.

 

[Exotrezy]

This is false, the only disease they may help a little with is flukes. They are no help for velvet or ich.

They mostly just greedily eat the food you feed. They are fun to watch but have drawbacks like annoying corals.

Ok

 

[BryanM]

No you don’t need one. They can annoy corals and steal food. They are ornamental. Basically you can get one if you like the looks and don’t mine their negatives of stealing food and stomping on things but they are not going to clean your tank.

The person sounds like they just want to sell you stuff.

My cleaner shrimp just hangs out in a corner and swims upside down all the time. So weird!

 

[jabberwock]

real live rock

Please describe this for us. Did you use LFS live rock, or "real ocean live rock"?

 

[jabberwock]

No he said that he doesnt have the cleaner or fire shrimp right now, he said if I want I can go buy them for a different person so I dont think he is just trying to sell me stuff. He said they clean everything so they will help me if my fish have any disease or etc.

Cleaner shrimp are cute and have plenty of personality. They come and clean your hand...

But I will never another. It would reach right onto my corals mouths and pull out food the coral had already "eaten".

 

[Lavey29]

Cleaner shrimp are cute and have plenty of personality. They come and clean your hand...

But I will never another. It would reach right onto my corals mouths and pull out food the coral had already "eaten".

Yep most shrimp do that although the 2 fire shrimp I have don't do it with my corals but some fish sure do.

 

[Tamberav]

My cleaner shrimp just hangs out in a corner and swims upside down all the time. So weird!

Haha I would love one that just sits in the corner instead of abusing LPS for its food.

 

[Lasse]

Lasse did say that diatoms are also caused by phosphates and not just silicates.

No - I said that diatoms will grow in the start because of lack off or low phosphate. They are specialist in order to use lower PO4 levels than most organisms and hence compete out other algae according space (place in the light to sit on). As fast as the PO4 is a little higher - green algae (and other forms) will grow faster and compete out the diatoms.

I do not buy the explanation about that it is primary leaked silica (silicon) from new sand that cause it in the start - there is always a leak from coral sand and rocks that in most case will establish a Silicon concentration of around 100 - 200 µg/L Si (correspond to a concentration of around 214-430 µg/L as silica (SiO2) This concentration will give the diatoms enough of Si for their growth - Si concentrations in a normal reef aquarium is not limited for diatoms growth - its a myth that it is that IMO. However at no or very low PO4 concentration - both diatoms and some dinoflagellates will bloom - regardless of the maturity of the aquarium. During 1 year I run my aquarium with rising Si concentrations (from 100 - 20 000 µg/L. Never, ever any problems with diatoms

10 000 or more of ICP analyses of real reefs had shown that the fear of silica in the water column of a reef just is a fear not a real threat.

The next total misunderstanding of a parameter that´s also seems hopeless to eradicate is the concept of ppm TDS. It is claimed that it should be zero otherwise the sky will fall down on your aquarium. What in heck is TDS. TDS is an US invention that is unfortunately spreading among saltwater aquarists all over the world. TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids. What in heck is a Dissolved Solid? As I know a solid can´t be dissolved. In this case - solids stand for ions nothing else. PPM TSD is nothing more than a complicated way to explain a waters conductivity. Conductivity depends on the number of free ions in a water. It can be any ions, both less good and harmless. PPM TDS says nothing about the suitability of the water - it only gives an idea of how many ions are in the water - the higher the ppm - the more ions. Your ppm meter is also just a simple conductivity meter.

How to recalculate PPM TSD to conductivity (µS/cm) Because this is not real science - there is a lot of different way to do it. The most common conversion constant is probably around 1.5 - 1 ppm TDS = 1.5 µS/cm. To have something to compare with - rainwater in non polluted areas are less than 10 µS/cm (around 6.6 ppm TDS)

Commercial desalination and deionization plants typically produce water between 5 - 30 µS/cm (3 - 20 ppm TDS). Ultrapure water (for medical, research, etc.) has between 0.06 - 0.2 µS/cm (0.04 - 0.13) ppm TDS.

When people claim that water for our aquariums must start from water with 0 ppm TDS, they are demanding water of the type for medical research. This is - IMO - just crazy - My RO water is normally somewhere between 1,5 - 9 µS/cm (1-6 ppm TDS ) and it works well. When testing it for real parameters as Cu and Zn - its always n.d (not detected)

The fear for accumulation of Si with RO water comes from the use of top-off. If you run without regular WC (as I do) - there is a theoretical risk of accumulation of silica even if its small amounts in the RO water. However my Si concentration i rather stable (100 - 300 µg/L) and ICP report N.D even when I have around 3 ppm TDs in my RO water.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

- Si concentrations in a normal reef aquarium is not limited for diatoms growth - its a myth that it is that IMO.

I cannot accept that assertion, and the simple fact that dosing silicate suddenly boost diatoms shows it is incorrect for at least those aquaria, if not all aquaria.

Silicate was absolutely limiting diatom growth in my tank.

Silica In Reef Aquariums

Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

reefs.com

Figure 3. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass.

Figure 6. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass and adding the silica supplement.

 

[56longroof]

Please describe this for us. Did you use LFS live rock, or "real ocean live rock"?

Real ocean live rock. I got it from KP Aquatics. I would never use LFS rock. I've seen more pests on that than I had on mine.

 

[Freenow54]

You mean with everything in general or just adding the coral?

I just meant avoiding the ugly stage, however Coral depends on Par or light intensity small polyp needs 400 and up

 

[jabberwock]

Real ocean live rock. I got it from KP Aquatics. I would never use LFS rock. I've seen more pests on that than I had on mine.

Thank you for the clarification. I do love some real ocean live rock!

 

[Exotrezy]

No - I said that diatoms will grow in the start because of lack off or low phosphate. They are specialist in order to use lower PO4 levels than most organisms and hence compete out other algae according space (place in the light to sit on). As fast as the PO4 is a little higher - green algae (and other forms) will grow faster and compete out the diatoms.

I do not buy the explanation about that it is primary leaked silica (silicon) from new sand that cause it in the start - there is always a leak from coral sand and rocks that in most case will establish a Silicon concentration of around 100 - 200 µg/L Si (correspond to a concentration of around 214-430 µg/L as silica (SiO2) This concentration will give the diatoms enough of Si for their growth - Si concentrations in a normal reef aquarium is not limited for diatoms growth - its a myth that it is that IMO. However at no or very low PO4 concentration - both diatoms and some dinoflagellates will bloom - regardless of the maturity of the aquarium. During 1 year I run my aquarium with rising Si concentrations (from 100 - 20 000 µg/L. Never, ever any problems with diatoms

10 000 or more of ICP analyses of real reefs had shown that the fear of silica in the water column of a reef just is a fear not a real threat.

The next total misunderstanding of a parameter that´s also seems hopeless to eradicate is the concept of ppm TDS. It is claimed that it should be zero otherwise the sky will fall down on your aquarium. What in heck is TDS. TDS is an US invention that is unfortunately spreading among saltwater aquarists all over the world. TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids. What in heck is a Dissolved Solid? As I know a solid can´t be dissolved. In this case - solids stand for ions nothing else. PPM TSD is nothing more than a complicated way to explain a waters conductivity. Conductivity depends on the number of free ions in a water. It can be any ions, both less good and harmless. PPM TDS says nothing about the suitability of the water - it only gives an idea of how many ions are in the water - the higher the ppm - the more ions. Your ppm meter is also just a simple conductivity meter.

How to recalculate PPM TSD to conductivity (µS/cm) Because this is not real science - there is a lot of different way to do it. The most common conversion constant is probably around 1.5 - 1 ppm TDS = 1.5 µS/cm. To have something to compare with - rainwater in non polluted areas are less than 10 µS/cm (around 6.6 ppm TDS)

Commercial desalination and deionization plants typically produce water between 5 - 30 µS/cm (3 - 20 ppm TDS). Ultrapure water (for medical, research, etc.) has between 0.06 - 0.2 µS/cm (0.04 - 0.13) ppm TDS.

When people claim that water for our aquariums must start from water with 0 ppm TDS, they are demanding water of the type for medical research. This is - IMO - just crazy - My RO water is normally somewhere between 1,5 - 9 µS/cm (1-6 ppm TDS ) and it works well. When testing it for real parameters as Cu and Zn - its always n.d (not detected)

The fear for accumulation of Si with RO water comes from the use of top-off. If you run without regular WC (as I do) - there is a theoretical risk of accumulation of silica even if its small amounts in the RO water. However my Si concentration i rather stable (100 - 300 µg/L) and ICP report N.D even when I have around 3 ppm TDs in my RO water.

Sincerely Lasse

Oh ok, sorry I misunderstood.

 

[Exotrezy]

Thank you for the clarification. I do love some real ocean live rock!

I cannot accept that assertion, and the simple fact that dosing silicate suddenly boost diatoms shows it is incorrect for at least those aquaria, if not all aquaria.

Silicate was absolutely limiting diatom growth in my tank.

Silica In Reef Aquariums

Why would I recommend dosing silica? Largely because creatures in our tanks use it, the concentrations in our tanks (at least in mine) are below natural levels, and the sponges, mollusks, and diatoms may not be getting enough to thrive.

reefs.com

Figure 3. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass.

Figure 6. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass and adding the silica supplement.

No - I said that diatoms will grow in the start because of lack off or low phosphate. They are specialist in order to use lower PO4 levels than most organisms and hence compete out other algae according space (place in the light to sit on). As fast as the PO4 is a little higher - green algae (and other forms) will grow faster and compete out the diatoms.

I do not buy the explanation about that it is primary leaked silica (silicon) from new sand that cause it in the start - there is always a leak from coral sand and rocks that in most case will establish a Silicon concentration of around 100 - 200 µg/L Si (correspond to a concentration of around 214-430 µg/L as silica (SiO2) This concentration will give the diatoms enough of Si for their growth - Si concentrations in a normal reef aquarium is not limited for diatoms growth - its a myth that it is that IMO. However at no or very low PO4 concentration - both diatoms and some dinoflagellates will bloom - regardless of the maturity of the aquarium. During 1 year I run my aquarium with rising Si concentrations (from 100 - 20 000 µg/L. Never, ever any problems with diatoms

10 000 or more of ICP analyses of real reefs had shown that the fear of silica in the water column of a reef just is a fear not a real threat.

The next total misunderstanding of a parameter that´s also seems hopeless to eradicate is the concept of ppm TDS. It is claimed that it should be zero otherwise the sky will fall down on your aquarium. What in heck is TDS. TDS is an US invention that is unfortunately spreading among saltwater aquarists all over the world. TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids. What in heck is a Dissolved Solid? As I know a solid can´t be dissolved. In this case - solids stand for ions nothing else. PPM TSD is nothing more than a complicated way to explain a waters conductivity. Conductivity depends on the number of free ions in a water. It can be any ions, both less good and harmless. PPM TDS says nothing about the suitability of the water - it only gives an idea of how many ions are in the water - the higher the ppm - the more ions. Your ppm meter is also just a simple conductivity meter.

How to recalculate PPM TSD to conductivity (µS/cm) Because this is not real science - there is a lot of different way to do it. The most common conversion constant is probably around 1.5 - 1 ppm TDS = 1.5 µS/cm. To have something to compare with - rainwater in non polluted areas are less than 10 µS/cm (around 6.6 ppm TDS)

Commercial desalination and deionization plants typically produce water between 5 - 30 µS/cm (3 - 20 ppm TDS). Ultrapure water (for medical, research, etc.) has between 0.06 - 0.2 µS/cm (0.04 - 0.13) ppm TDS.

When people claim that water for our aquariums must start from water with 0 ppm TDS, they are demanding water of the type for medical research. This is - IMO - just crazy - My RO water is normally somewhere between 1,5 - 9 µS/cm (1-6 ppm TDS ) and it works well. When testing it for real parameters as Cu and Zn - its always n.d (not detected)

The fear for accumulation of Si with RO water comes from the use of top-off. If you run without regular WC (as I do) - there is a theoretical risk of accumulation of silica even if its small amounts in the RO water. However my Si concentration i rather stable (100 - 300 µg/L) and ICP report N.D even when I have around 3 ppm TDs in my RO water.

Sincerely Lasse

Haha I would love one that just sits in the corner instead of abusing LPS for its food.

Yep most shrimp do that although the 2 fire shrimp I have don't do it with my corals but some fish sure do.

Does anybody know what this spot on my candy cane coral is? It randomly appeared and It wasn't here this morning.