Balancing out major 3

[10galtank]

Hello, all

I have been fighting the seemingly never-ending rope tug of balancing our my 3 major parameter; NO3, PO4, DKH. I have been in this hobby for years and have been able to balance them for short spurts of time. My parameters will stay stable as could be for a few weeks, a month, sometimes longer, then they will fluctuate to a new set and stay there periodically— this really stumps my brain. I keep maintenance, feeding, and everything else the same. I feed strictly frozen foods, as well as aminos. I do like to keep my nutrients a little elevated as my corals seem to love it, but I am constantly on the knifes edge of possibly to high of nutrients. I have battled many algae blooms, and some still prevail, but at the same time, my tank almost refuses to cooperate. Its an odd marriage: tank gives me stunning coral, with the “small” cost of insanity and algae hahaha. Nonetheless, these fluctuations DO play into effect of my corals health as they are healthy when “stable” then a new set of “stable” parameters come in for a while and it seems to stress them until they finally get happy again— cycle then repeats.

***I will provide a list of parameters below within the past month or so. I have been adjusting my AFR dosing in conjunction to the fluctuations of parameters as I do not want my ALK to rise to high during these events.

 

[10galtank]

 

[10galtank]

 

[10galtank]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The most recent values do not look like a substantial concern and I’d just sit back and monitor while continuing the AFR.

 

[10galtank]

The most recent values do not look like a substantial concern and I’d just sit back and monitor while continuing the AFR.

Thank you for the reply, sir. However, I am trying to figure out the “stability swings” in my system. They will stay stable for a month or so, longer or shorter, then switch to a completely new set of parameters for the next month or so.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you for the reply, sir. However, I am trying to figure out the “stability swings” in my system. They will stay stable for a month or so, longer or shorter, then switch to a completely new set of parameters for the next month or so.

Well, let’s not try to adjust before they change. Keep monitoring and if things seem to be trending in an undesirable direction we can advise based on the trend.

Things change over time in reef tanks, even if you change nothing, so expect some adjustments and tweaks.

 

[eliaslikesfish]

what do you dose? and how often?

 

[10galtank]

Well, let’s not try to adjust before they change. Keep monitoring and if things seem to be trending in an undesirable direction we can advise based on the trend.

Things change over time in reef tanks, even if you change nothing, so expect some adjustments and tweaks.

I agree things do change. My DKH seems to swing heavily throughout each month— even with the lowering/tweaking of dosage amount, and high addition of corals. It seems the most important thing in a reef tank is long-term stability no matter the values of the tank, however, with a constantly changing “stable” environment, my tank lacks long term thus constantly leading to new problems and coral irritation. My values look fine as of now, but in efforts of long term stability, how can I finally balance out these values for longer than a months time? And/or is there some science I do not know of that is contributing to these heavy swings of stability?

 

[10galtank]

what do you dose? and how often?

I only dose AFR by TM. That takes care of my alk, cal, mag, TE. I “dose” amino acids by mixing with my frozen mysis.

Daily dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

first, I’d clarify that the big three to most people are not those you mention, but are alk, calcium, and magnesium. Exact values of nitrate and phosphate are not critical as long as they are not too low.

Second, I think you are worrying far too much about attaining exact values. I disagree with your assertion that alk needs to be more stable than a change of +/ -
0.5 dKH over a few weeks, which is what you show.

If alk is trending down, slowly up the AFR until it is no longer trending down. Make small and infrequent changes in dose so as to not over correct.

 

[eliaslikesfish]

first, I’d clarify that the big three to most people are not those you mention, but are alk, calcium, and magnesium. Exact values of nitrate and phosphate are not critical as long as they are not too low.

Second, I think you are worrying far too much about attaining exact values. I disagree with your assertion that alk needs to be more stable than a change of +/ -
0.5 dKH over a few weeks, which is what you show.

If alk is trending down, slowly up the AFR until it is no longer trending down. Make small and infrequent changes in dose so as to not over correct.

this^

additionally I’ll add that what worked best for me with AFR was dosing mag, cal, and alk separately until i was at the desired level, only then did i switch fully over to AFR and experimented with the dose until i found an amount that kept them all stable. When I first started it i didn’t get all my params to where i wanted them to be first and it made all my params fluctuate.

 

[10galtank]

first, I’d clarify that the big three to most people are not those you mention, but are alk, calcium, and magnesium. Exact values of nitrate and phosphate are not critical as long as they are not too low.

Second, I think you are worrying far too much about attaining exact values. I disagree with your assertion that alk needs to be more stable than a change of +/ -
0.5 dKH over a few weeks, which is what you show.

If alk is trending down, slowly up the AFR until it is no longer trending down. Make small and infrequent changes in dose so as to not over correct.

Thank you, will follow that advice. I was referring to the major 3 that I am concerned of and battling. Calcium and Magnesium are out of my picture as I just need to monitor the ALK as per instructions of the AFR. I agree with you of the +- 0.5dkh swings are subadequate, but throughout these swings and new parameter values, my corals and tank suffer until they finally get happy. Then a new set arrives and the process repeats. This problem is what I am posting on the forum to try and figure out. NO3 and PO4 I also agree are not 9-1-1 important elements, but in my case, they lead to an excess of algae. My tank refuses to drop these numbers to “industry standards” in efforts to stop this problem. That is also why I am on this forum: to see what the deal with that is about as well.

first, I’d clarify that the big three to most people are not those you mention, but are alk, calcium, and magnesium. Exact values of nitrate and phosphate are not critical as long as they are not too low.

Second, I think you are worrying far too much about attaining exact values. I disagree with your assertion that alk needs to be more stable than a change of +/ -
0.5 dKH over a few weeks, which is what you show.

If alk is trending down, slowly up the AFR until it is no longer trending down. Make small and infrequent changes in dose so as to not over correct.

 

[10galtank]

this^

additionally I’ll add that what worked best for me with AFR was dosing mag, cal, and alk separately until i was at the desired level, only then did i switch fully over to AFR and experimented with the dose until i found an amount that kept them all stable. When I first started it i didn’t get all my params to where i wanted them to be first and it made all my params fluctuate.

Roger that, I thought of that as well. However, it is my nutrients and ALK that are swinging. For some reason, my calc and mag stay the same. I do sometimes dose small amounts of calc and mag, but that is far and few in between. My tank has been running on AFR for two years now.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you, will follow that advice. I was referring to the major 3 that I am concerned of and battling. Calcium and Magnesium are out of my picture as I just need to monitor the ALK as per instructions of the AFR. I agree with you of the +- 0.5dkh swings are subadequate, but throughout these swings and new parameter values, my corals and tank suffer until they finally get happy. Then a new set arrives and the process repeats. This problem is what I am posting on the forum to try and figure out. NO3 and PO4 I also agree are not 9-1-1 important elements, but in my case, they lead to an excess of algae. My tank refuses to drop these numbers to “industry standards” in efforts to stop this problem. That is also why I am on this forum: to see what the deal with that is about as well.

I’d relook at “industry standards”. One of the best tanks around has had 100 ppm nitrate and over 1 ppm ohosphate:

Rich Ross - Home Tank - guess the phosphate

This tank was built before r2r, here is a link to some links about the build. http://packedhead.net/home-reef/ Current test results: 03-17-2017 Ammonia (NH3-4) Good 0 0.000 - 0.050 mg/L 03-17-2017 Nitrite (NO2) Good 0.006 0.000 - 0.100 mg/L 03-17-2017 Phosphate...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[KrisReef]

I skimmed a bit, but I didn't notice if you are matching current alk parameters when you do your water changes?

 

[10galtank]

I skimmed a bit, but I didn't notice if you are matching current alk parameters when you do your water changes?

The salt used at my LFS has a dkh of 8-9, which is close to mine and where I desire to keep it.

 

[KrisReef]

The salt used at my LFS has a dkh of 8-9, which is close to mine and where I desire to keep it.

If you want stable dkh then you need to insure that the replacement water is the same temperature and dkh as the tank to avoid alk swings.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Daily small doses of AFR will stabilize alk. Only change it after at least 2-3 days at the given dose.

 

[Reef Puncher]

I agree things do change. My DKH seems to swing heavily throughout each month— even with the lowering/tweaking of dosage amount, and high addition of corals. It seems the most important thing in a reef tank is long-term stability no matter the values of the tank, however, with a constantly changing “stable” environment, my tank lacks long term thus constantly leading to new problems and coral irritation. My values look fine as of now, but in efforts of long term stability, how can I finally balance out these values for longer than a months time? And/or is there some science I do not know of that is contributing to these heavy swings of stability?

have you tried auto dosers?