Bean animal drain height?

[Ocelaris]

How much below the overflow height do you make the main and secondary drains? The main one is the middle U and the one on the left is the secondary. The one on the right is the emergency, which I know is too short. Do you measure from the top of the U, which on the main is 1" below the weir and the secondary is flush with the weir. Or do you measure from the bottom where the filter is?

The far right is the 1" return (there's also one on the far left you can't see).

Thanks!

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

In my Synergy Shadow overflow I have my main submerged with about an inch of water above the top of the elbow so it is a full siphon and drawing no air at operating water height. My secondary is positioned where the water level is about even with bend on the elbow. It only occasionally drains water if the water level rises for some reason in my overflow box. The emergency is positioned about 1/2 - 3/4" above the operating water level.

 

[KJAG]

This was improperly plumbed. To say the least. I don’t even know where to begin.
You don’t need your open channel higher than the siphon for starters and your emergency is well below the weir level.

 

[Ocelaris]

Perfect, thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Did you drill the secondary with airline tubing and a check valve? I was looking at the brs 1/4" bulkhead, but it's pretty huge to drill into 1 1/2" tubing.

 

[Sierra_Bravo]

This was improperly plumbed. To say the least. I don’t even know where to begin.

If that's in reply to mine, please do elaborate. I'd like to know as I thought I had set it up according to direction and it's been functioning for over a year now.

 

[KJAG]

If that's in reply to mine, please do elaborate. I'd like to know as I thought I had set it up according to direction and it's been functioning for over a year now.

I wasn’t referring to you.

 

[Ocelaris]

Right, these aren't hard plumbed yet, long story. I think you missed the part where I mentioned I know the emergency siphon is too low. Short of that, the top of the plumbing is exactly like the other guys. So what am I missing?

Thanks

 

[KJAG]

Right, these aren't hard plumbed yet, long story. I think you missed the part where I mentioned I know the emergency siphon is too low. Short of that, the top of the plumbing is exactly like the other guys. So what am I missing?

Thanks

It sounds like you listened to those who told you that you need your open channel higher than your siphon. Which isn’t true. Not that big of a deal. But indeed, your emergency should be higher. I guess I’m just wondering, if you knew this, why didn’t you just plumb it accordingly to begin with?

 

[KJAG]

Also you have quite a bit of fall from the level of your downturned Ell’s and your overflow(weir)Can’t tell what the drop is..5-6”? Which can cause turbulence and cavitation. But: you have a teeth overflow which will prevent much of this potentially, but will for sure have a negative effect on ideal surface skimming.

 

[Ocelaris]

The emergency was a miscut. The rest isn't glued. Would you not do ells? There's no way to get a shorter ell with a 1.5" pipe plus a filter, but I tried with a 45 to get it higher. As far as I can tell, besides the emergency drain, it basically matched every picture I can find on Google. Do you have a better picture? Basically the directions aren't so clear when applied to my situation, and I have lots of spare pipe and elbows, so trying to get some advice.


My assumption was that I could tune the water so the height was just below the top of the open channel, which is only an inch below the surface of the weir to minimize drop. I assumed that both the primary and open channel would be fully submerged. But I'm open to different ideas,as nothing is glued yet.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Ocelaris]

Here's the problem, almost every picture has the open channel above the primary.

 

[madweazl]

Main and secondary can be the same height; the emergency needs only be slightly higher.

 

[KJAG]

Main and secondary can be the same height; the emergency needs only be slightly higher.

This is true. Although I would argue that the emergency should be higher than your weir.

 

[Ocelaris]

So how would you do the downturned ells better? Some people have the ells completely submerged, others have them half submerged. Which leads me to believe that it doesn't really matter how far down they go as the weir drop will only be an inch.

 

[KJAG]

So how would you do the downturned ells better? Some people have the ells completely submerged, others have them half submerged. Which leads me to believe that it doesn't really matter how far down they go as the weir drop will only be an inch.

It does matter “how far they go down,” as too much of a waterfall will cause cavitation in your siphon. Looking at your photo, your wier drop is only an inch? Sure about that?

 

[Antics]

I tried to rough this out in paint to make it easier for discussions sake.

As you can see in the top half it looks similar to the photo you've provided. The issues have been addressed by others but basically it has a few problems (or sub-optimal choices at least) and they've been pointed out but I'm including them here for posterity. For starters, the emergency drain needs to be higher obviously, and that's to make it so it only functions in the event of an emergency. Secondly, as @Shores805 pointed out the main and secondary drains should be higher. Basically your photo looks like there is a 3+ inch drop from where the weir notches begin and your main drain is. Depending on the flow of your tank, this could potentially cause issues by A) being much louder due to the aquarium sending water crashing down to the overflow, and B) increased flow/crashing will likely cause bubbles in the overflow section which will cause your siphon to run sub-optimally and potentially noisily.

The bottom half of the photo above basically shows a better layout for your drain pipes. The main/full siphon drain pipe should be lower than the secondary to make life easier in my experience. However, the water level will naturally be somewhere between the main and the secondary height due to the gate valve adjustments to get that fine tune between the two lines. Ideally, you want this water level to be just slightly under the weir so that when water is pushed into the overflow it will effectively be silent. Imagine holding a cup in your sink and tilting it to pour water out versus holding that same cup above your head and slowly pouring it.

This will significantly quiet the overflow. The emergency pipe should be raise to be just slightly above the weir height (or water level in the aquarium when enough flow is pushing water back into the overflow). This is to make it so that your emergency line is/can only activate when the water in the overflow has risen enough to the point that it is at equilibrium with the water in the display tank. By doing so you will still have the ability to prevent flooding but it will also prevent the occasional sucking/slurping you might hear if you have wave makers in the display that push water into the overflow at varying speeds/amounts.

On that note, I'd get rid of the basket/prefilter whatever you have on the emergency drain. It's needlessly redundant and you want that flow as unobstructed as possible. If you're worried about three different levels of failure due to a snail or something I think an overflow lid would be a better deterrent.

 

[KJAG]

Here's the problem, almost every picture has the open channel above the primary.

No the only “problem” is, I noticed you included some of William Burnett’s (Beananimal’s) images here, which is a bit misinformed since Bean himself is on record as stating( along with Jim over at RC otherwise known as Uncleof6, who’s maybe the second most knowledgeable individual in the entire hobby in regards to the bean overflow) that you Do Not need the open channel higher then the siphon to function properly. I concur as I’ve run multiple tanks(including my current 225) with these two standpipes at the exact same height and simply adjusted via the gate with zero issues and flawless operation. It would be beneficial to read that thread as it’s one of the best forum resources in the hobby.

 

[Ocelaris]

Thanks Antics, that clears up everything! I will raise up the siphons, but the picture is a tad misleading, but I have enough pipe to redo it.

I tried to rough this out in paint to make it easier for discussions sake.

As you can see in the top half it looks similar to the photo you've provided. The issues have been addressed by others but basically it has a few problems (or sub-optimal choices at least) and they've been pointed out but I'm including them here for posterity. For starters, the emergency drain needs to be higher obviously, and that's to make it so it only functions in the event of an emergency. Secondly, as @Shores805 pointed out the main and secondary drains should be higher. Basically your photo looks like there is a 3+ inch drop from where the weir notches begin and your main drain is. Depending on the flow of your tank, this could potentially cause issues by A) being much louder due to the aquarium sending water crashing down to the overflow, and B) increased flow/crashing will likely cause bubbles in the overflow section which will cause your siphon to run sub-optimally and potentially noisily.

The bottom half of the photo above basically shows a better layout for your drain pipes. The main/full siphon drain pipe should be lower than the secondary to make life easier in my experience. However, the water level will naturally be somewhere between the main and the secondary height due to the gate valve adjustments to get that fine tune between the two lines. Ideally, you want this water level to be just slightly under the weir so that when water is pushed into the overflow it will effectively be silent. Imagine holding a cup in your sink and tilting it to pour water out versus holding that same cup above your head and slowly pouring it.

This will significantly quiet the overflow. The emergency pipe should be raise to be just slightly above the weir height (or water level in the aquarium when enough flow is pushing water back into the overflow). This is to make it so that your emergency line is/can only activate when the water in the overflow has risen enough to the point that it is at equilibrium with the water in the display tank. By doing so you will still have the ability to prevent flooding but it will also prevent the occasional sucking/slurping you might hear if you have wave makers in the display that push water into the overflow at varying speeds/amounts.

On that note, I'd get rid of the basket/prefilter whatever you have on the emergency drain. It's needlessly redundant and you want that flow as unobstructed as possible. If you're worried about three different levels of failure due to a snail or something I think an overflow lid would be a better deterrent.

 

[Ocelaris]

My point was that there was a lot of information about the bean animal, and a reasonable search would come up different opinions. Hence the purpose of this thread.

No the only “problem” is, I noticed you included some of William Burnett’s (Beananimal’s) images here, which is a bit misinformed since Bean himself is on record as stating( along with Jim over at RC otherwise known as Uncleof6, who’s maybe the second most knowledgeable individual in the entire hobby in regards to the bean overflow) that you Do Not need the open channel higher then the siphon to function properly. I concur as I’ve run multiple tanks(including my current 225) with these two standpipes at the exact same height and simply adjusted via the gate with zero issues and flawless operation. It would be beneficial to read that thread as it’s one of the best forum resources in the hobby.

 

[madweazl]

Here's the problem, almost every picture has the open channel above the primary.

Now you have one that isn't.