Bean Animal Drain Help

[Biokabe]

This drain has been driving me crazy.

I have an Eshopps Eclipse L overflow set up in a Bean Animal configuration. Emergency drain in the center, primary drain w/ gate valve on the right, secondary drain on the left. Both are set up with elbow tops. The primary drain is shorter by some amount, but I'm not sure by how much. The secondary drain has a small hole (7/32", I believe) drilled into the top for a siphon break. Pretty standard setup from what I've been able to see. The ends of the drain pumps are both completely submerged in the sump, with the ends of the pipes about 4"-6" from the surface of the water.

The day before yesterday, I was able to tune the plumbing to make it completely silent, including the return pipes. However, after I turned off the return pump yesterday, nothing I have tried has worked to make the slightest difference in the sound. The main drain is more or less silent, I can't hear any gurgling coming from that pipe. The secondary pipe, though, is throwing bubbles like crazy - the drain chamber of the sump looks like it has a protein skimmer running in it. The return pipes are also very noisy.

I have tried opening and closing the gate valve at various levels - I've gone through the complete operational limit (completely closed/completely open) several times without it making any difference to the water/bubble level coming down through the secondary drain.

I don't know the exact height difference between the primary and secondary. When I originally installed them I put them in backwards (shorter pipe on the secondary drain) and by the time I realized what I had done the tank was already filled and against the wall. The pipe in the secondary drain was stuck in there pretty good, but I was able to pull out the other pipe, replace the fitting I had drilled with the siphon break with a fresh fitting, and shorten the pipe. But since I didn't have the other pipe to compare against I had to guesstimate as to how short to make the pipe. Visually it looks about 0.5" shorter than the secondary drain pipe, but since I can't see them both at the same time it's hard to say for sure.

Some other pertinent information:

• Tank is 90g, sump is 18g. I have split return lines, one coming in on each side of the tank. The actual return nozzles are on locline, currently set about an inch or two below the waterline.
• Return pump is a Reef Octopus Varios-2. I currently have it set on level 2, so flow is supposed to be about 500 gph through it. I know that it's likely not pushing that much flow. I can drop it down to about 400 gph, or as high as about 800 gph.
• The water level in the overflow is about 3/4 of the way up the elbow topper on the secondary fitting, the water is not above the siphon break. There's about 1", maybe 2" from the top of the fitting to the top of the emergency line.

I know it can be silenced, because it was silenced before. It was the quietest I've ever had a tank. What can I do to get that back?

 

[Freenow54]

I don't know if this is the problem but if there is an air pocket at the top of the tubes you have to insert tubing unlike a catheter and remove the air

 

[Biokabe]

That might be the problem. When I got it silenced before, it did seem to need to flush something out, and once that happened it suddenly flowed smoothly.

 

[skey44]

This drain has been driving me crazy.

I have an Eshopps Eclipse L overflow set up in a Bean Animal configuration. Emergency drain in the center, primary drain w/ gate valve on the right, secondary drain on the left. Both are set up with elbow tops. The primary drain is shorter by some amount, but I'm not sure by how much. The secondary drain has a small hole (7/32", I believe) drilled into the top for a siphon break. Pretty standard setup from what I've been able to see. The ends of the drain pumps are both completely submerged in the sump, with the ends of the pipes about 4"-6" from the surface of the water.

The day before yesterday, I was able to tune the plumbing to make it completely silent, including the return pipes. However, after I turned off the return pump yesterday, nothing I have tried has worked to make the slightest difference in the sound. The main drain is more or less silent, I can't hear any gurgling coming from that pipe. The secondary pipe, though, is throwing bubbles like crazy - the drain chamber of the sump looks like it has a protein skimmer running in it. The return pipes are also very noisy.

I have tried opening and closing the gate valve at various levels - I've gone through the complete operational limit (completely closed/completely open) several times without it making any difference to the water/bubble level coming down through the secondary drain.

I don't know the exact height difference between the primary and secondary. When I originally installed them I put them in backwards (shorter pipe on the secondary drain) and by the time I realized what I had done the tank was already filled and against the wall. The pipe in the secondary drain was stuck in there pretty good, but I was able to pull out the other pipe, replace the fitting I had drilled with the siphon break with a fresh fitting, and shorten the pipe. But since I didn't have the other pipe to compare against I had to guesstimate as to how short to make the pipe. Visually it looks about 0.5" shorter than the secondary drain pipe, but since I can't see them both at the same time it's hard to say for sure.

Some other pertinent information:

• Tank is 90g, sump is 18g. I have split return lines, one coming in on each side of the tank. The actual return nozzles are on locline, currently set about an inch or two below the waterline.
• Return pump is a Reef Octopus Varios-2. I currently have it set on level 2, so flow is supposed to be about 500 gph through it. I know that it's likely not pushing that much flow. I can drop it down to about 400 gph, or as high as about 800 gph.
• The water level in the overflow is about 3/4 of the way up the elbow topper on the secondary fitting, the water is not above the siphon break. There's about 1", maybe 2" from the top of the fitting to the top of the emergency line.

I know it can be silenced, because it was silenced before. It was the quietest I've ever had a tank. What can I do to get that back?

Maybe the primary drain is clogged? Sounds like there’s too much water going into the secondary drain. Could also be air-locked as suggested above.

 

[Biokabe]

Clog is unlikely, I just set it up less than 2 weeks ago and am feeding very lightly at the moment since there isn't much in the tank. I could certainly buy that it's air-locked... what are the good ways to permanently reduce the likelihood of air getting trapped?

 

[JonoH]

Sounds air locked - could it be that the pump your running isnt strong enough to push the air through?

Had this issue with a tank I set up for my son, had to up the pump size, before that I had to bleed the air out each time it was stopped and restarted.

 

[skey44]

Is the primary drain completely submerged? I’m having good luck with this setup so far. Not a bean animal but a herbie. Same principals apply that primary drain should be full siphon and completely submerged. If drop from display to overflow is too much or more than a trickle goes into the emergency drain it really lets you know with a lot of sound!

 

[UncommonSense]

This really sounds like a primary drain plumbing clog based off symptoms… unless less there’s a long horizontals or uphill run of primary drain plumbing; air locking isn’t as likely… (though reducing the depth of sump submersion for the drain plumbing by a few inches would also help in the event of an air lock)

The best bet I can think of is removing the primary drain plumbing (ideally using a union, if it has one) and trying to blast it out in reverse with a garden hose! — this should ideally eject any significant clogs, such as a snail!

 

[tripdad]

Drill a 3/16 hole in the side of the drain pipe about an inch above the water level in the sump. So down at the sump end, just above waterline.

 

[lapin]

If the pipes drop straight down into the sump then at 6” under water they are too deep. If you have any 90* ‘s then for sure they are too deep to purge air out of the lines

 

[Biokabe]

A small update here:

Plumbing is still noisy. I've reduced the length of the pipe in the drain chamber (now each one is about 1.5" below the water line). I also pulled out the pipe on the secondary drain and replaced it with one about 1" taller, so it's now definitely taller than the primary.

Even with the primary fully open, more of the water seems to be going down the secondary, despite the fact that the water level on the primary is about 1.5" below the secondary. When I disassembled the plumbing to shorten the pipe on the primary I checked for clogs and there were none, so I think the air lock theory is sounding more plausible.

Should I take off the elbow fitting over the primary drain? Drill a hole through it and install a valve to purge air? Increase my pump to the max setting?

 

[skey44]

My primary drain is bulkhead to strainer at the bottom of the overflow. Removes all doubt if it’s clogged or submerged enough.

 

[UncommonSense]

Should I take off the elbow fitting over the primary drain? Drill a hole through it and install a valve to purge air?

Try removing the elbow and just having a straight vertical standpipe to omit it as a variable…

Increase my pump to the max setting?

1” sch. 40 PVC should be good for roughly 950gph… what gate valve are you using? Spears brand? — I’m looking for plumbing restrictions at this point!

 

[RocketEngineer]

SO, let’s start from the top.

Verify water level: Fill the tank until it starts draining into the sump. Then fill the sump to within 1-2” of sump rim.

Prepare plumbing: open the pump outlet valve and the gate valve in the siphon pipe full open.

Turn on the pump. Watch the outlet of the siphon pipe. It should blow bubbles and be very noisy. The flow should now settle with the sump and tank levels stable but lots of noise.

Now, slowly close down the siphon until water just barely starts flowing into the secondary drain pipe. Let things stabilize for a while. Watch water levels.

Now, once the siphon is set, turn off the pump, let everything stop draining, then turn it on again. If the siphon fails to purge the air in it, it’s likely too deep.

Remember, make small changes then wait. 20-30 minutes between adjustments will give things time to balance out. Don’t rush or you may end up with a mess.

HTH

 

[Biokabe]

Finally got it quiet.

What I did: Finally remembered that I had a ball valve on the secondary drain.

On the other side of it, the problem was exactly what people thought it was: There was a significant air bubble in the plumbing. This was an impediment to flow, and so it was easier for the water to instead go down the secondary drain. As the secondary had a siphon break and no gate valve, it was impossible to tame the flow through the pipe.

So I turned off the return pump, closed the ball valve on the secondary drain, and turned the pump back on at the lowest setting. Noises erupted that hadn't come up before, and after a very loud burp of air out of the pipe, flow established through the primary drain. Bubbles were now pouring out of it rather than the secondary, and the water level in the overflow was now low - which hadn't happened before. Turned up the pump, and eventually, at the 3rd or 4th setting, the water level in the overflow finally rose enough to establish the siphon, and everything quieted down.

So that's where we are now. Everything is quiet and going working as it should.