Bean Animal w/Corner Overflow?

[Rcpilot]

I'm setting up a 40g breeder. I'm going with a corner overflow I found on ebay. It's a full height corner box and I had options of left side, right side or even center. For my setup, left side works best.

I want to do a Bean Animal overflow. Is there anything wrong with this plan? It's not scale, and I may have to stagger the bulkheads left/right etc.. but this is the basic concept of how I plan to do it.

The first pic is a front view. This would be the back - left side of the tank corner in this view, and you're standing in front of it.

This is the same view, but a different layout for the bulkheads.

These are side views:
This is just the bulkheads. This would be standing on the right side of the tank, looking across the back wall, to the opposite side.

Same view, same standing position on the right side of the tank, but plumbing inside the overflow box now.

In the above view, my dry pipe would be the one closest to the top of the overflow. 2nd pipe would be a threaded strainer. 3rd pipe, middle height, is my trickle drain.

Here is a plan view (top/down). The sump is shown, but it's obviously underneath the stand. The tank is a 40g breeder. Overflow on the left. The refugium to the right is a 20XH

Elevation view.

 

[TheEngineer]

I'm no bean animal expert, but I've never seen them where the drains were at differing heights. I think so long as you can plumb them all even there shouldn't be a problem.

That said, be careful to space your holes properly so you don't wind up weakening the glass.

 

[Rcpilot]

I'm no bean animal expert, but I've never seen them where the drains were at differing heights. I think so long as you can plumb them all even there shouldn't be a problem.

That said, be careful to space your holes properly so you don't wind up weakening the glass.

I'm not sure the height or location of the holes matters. The important part is... do you have all 3 pipes oriented so it works like a Bean Animal on the weir side? ........... I think. :) In the above drawings, with pipe No 1 being on top and No 3 on bottom.

Pipe 1 - emergency drain that should be DRY, except in an emergency. I'd like to have this hooked to an alarm and/or a stop switch for my return pump.
Pipe 2 -- fully submerged so it can't suck air -- this is the full siphon drain and will be regulated with a gate valve below.
Pipe 3 - trickle drain - this is a wet pipe, but should not be fully flooded except in an emergency.


As for the holes, I'm always careful. I have drilled a lot of tanks and sumps, but never drilled one with this many holes on a single tank. Even drilled 3 holes in a 20L sump once while it was running. Had a friend help me. We put 3 magnetic float switches in, for my DIY ATO. The 40g breeder will have 6 holes. Not worried about the little ones. It's the 3 big ones stacked in the corner that got me sweatin' . :D

 

[Smo]

A general rule of thumb is to separate the holes by at least one diameter to reduce the potential for cracks forming between them.
Your corner overflow may be doable but I think you would be much happier using something like an Eclipse L.

 

[User1]

I'd go back and look at Bean's design. If you vary it then it is no longer a Bean Animal design and may not have the same safety net built in. Judging by the drawings it isn't. You can have the weir on the side panel similar to a peninsula style tank. Has noted above just space out the holes such that they are far enough apart to not weaken the glass.

Edit: Not sure what size bulk heads / holes you are using but 3/4' or 1" would be fine and leave a lot of spacing between them. Return can go over the top.

 

[Rcpilot]

A general rule of thumb is to separate the holes by at least one diameter to reduce the potential for cracks forming between them.
Your corner overflow may be doable but I think you would be much happier using something like an Eclipse L.

I had planned to space my holes per the general guidelines.. even as much as 1.5 times hole spacing.

I'm just not sure it'll work as intended.

Trying to avoid the $100++ price tag with the eclipse.

 

[Rcpilot]

I'd go back and look at Bean's design. If you vary it then it is no longer a Bean Animal design and may not have the same safety net built in. Judging by the drawings it isn't. You can have the weir on the side panel similar to a peninsula style tank. Has noted above just space out the holes such that they are far enough apart to not weaken the glass.

Edit: Not sure what size bulk heads / holes you are using but 3/4' or 1" would be fine and leave a lot of spacing between them. Return can go over the top.

I'm using 3 of the 1-inch lines on the drain.

Had planned on 1 or 2 returns. I wanted it to look a little cleaner, so probably drill those holes for 3/4 bulkhead. I think its 1.375". They're on the way, and so are the hole saws.

I guess you are right about it not being a Bean Animal if I modify it. Off to Google. :)

 

[Daimyo68]

I don't see any reason this wouldn't work. It's a Verticle BeanAnimal. the water level will act the same as it does in the normal BA setup.

Plan it as you have in image 4, and it will work fine.
3 - 1" drains are more than enough to take on plenty of flow using schedule 40 pvc and even schedule 80 (More rigid).

the only thing you may have to play with is the secondary drain pipe height, so you don't get the waterfall effect/noise in your overflow.

 

[Rcpilot]

I don't see any reason this wouldn't work. It's a Verticle BeanAnimal. the water level will act the same as it does in the normal BA setup.

That's exactly what I was thinking. It's a vertical Bean Animal. I don't think it matters if the drain holes are horizontal or vertical. WHERE the water comes from, makes no difference. I think the area to concentrate on, is the height of the individual lines, as they relate to each other.

Plan it as you have in image 4, and it will work fine.
3 - 1" drains are more than enough to take on plenty of flow using schedule 40 pvc and even schedule 80 (More rigid).

I debated on running 3/4" drains, but most of the searches I did, showed people typically using a 1" drain.

the only thing you may have to play with is the secondary drain pipe height, so you don't get the waterfall effect/noise in your overflow.

My thoughts exactly. I think the open channel pipe (lower bulkhead in my drawings) will need to be at least 2 or 3 inches above the siphon line... for 2 reasons. No. 1 - so the siphon doesn't create a vortex and suck air. No. 2 - so the full siphon will actually START and run, as opposed to being full of trapped air and then being troublesome on startup. I read a LOT of people having trouble on startup with the Bean Animal. In looking at photos and reading the descriptions, I came to the conclusion most all of these were issues with the open channel pipe not being high enough.... or there was too much horizontal run on the siphon drain. I won't have the horizontal problem, so only thing to screw me up is the open channel being too short.

 

[nrenn]

The full siphon line can be anywhere, even at the bottom of the tank, as long as it doesn't suck air. If you have plenty of freeboard in your sump, I would leave off the stand pipe on the siphon entirely. Just be aware that when power is off, your overflow will drain to that point and the tank too if your overflow isn't sealed well. The trickle line sets the water height, I would set that as high as possible, but leave head room for start up. If you omit the downturned elbows as described in Bean-an-animal's original write-up, airlocking your siphon line is less likely and leads to a shorter startup time and less overfill of the tank before the siphon kicks in. Ways to avoid airlocking your siphon: make sure the line fully drains when powered off, end the line above the surface of the water in your sump (this will be noisy and splash), alternatively, end your line below the surface, but drill a small hole above the surface (water will shoot out in operation, add fittings or splash guard or whatever to manage it)

 

[Daimyo68]

end the line above the surface of the water in your sump (this will be noisy and splash)

Sorry, not stepping on toes, but this is incorrect. You cannot accomplish a full siphon if either end of the channel is not below/submerged under the water line.

The only channel above the water line would be the Emergency. This creates "spalshing/noise" to alert you there is a problem.

alternatively, end your line below the surface, but drill a small hole above the surface (water will shoot out in operation, add fittings or splash guard or whatever to manage it)

Same here, if there is an opening anywhere in the siphon line, it's not sealed and will not create a siphon due to air entering the channel.

I believe there was mention in Beans thread years ago about drilling holes below the water surface in the sump to help purge the air.

The main siphon (primary) should terminate just below the running water level in the sump (apporx 1/2" - 1"). This helps to purge air from that channel before the secondary.

The secondary should be roughly 1" lower than the primary in the sump. The reason being is that the deeper it is under the water level, the harder it is to purge the air.

 

[nrenn]

Sorry, not stepping on toes, but this is incorrect. You cannot accomplish a full siphon if either end of the channel is not below/submerged under the water line.

Same here, if there is an opening anywhere in the siphon line, it's not sealed and will not create a siphon due to air entering the channel.

Sorry, THAT is incorrect. The outlet location doesn't matter for a siphon as long as it is below the inlet water level. I think every person on this site has probably siphoned water from a tank into a bucket before, you don't need the outlet submerged.

I have my own overflow set up this way, with a small vent hole drilled just above water level in my sump, on a 125g with a Mag 9 return, steady state happens in less than a minute. While my drilled vent is no longer needed because I fixed my airlocking problems though other means, it also isn't detrimental at all because that end of the line is under pressure not vacuum. I only offered that as an aside in case he runs into the same issues. The only way it matters is if flow rate is very slow and air can float up through the moving water in the line, but if this happens in this application, you have seriously mismatched line size to pump flow

Side note, a submerged outlet has higher flow resistance than dumping into air, for an aquarium that isn't a huge deal, but dumping underwater has the benefit of being quiet.

 

[dbjonesjr]

I could be wrong but may want to be careful when drilling that close to the edge of the glass right there.

 

[Rcpilot]

I could be wrong but may want to be careful when drilling that close to the edge of the glass right there.

You're not wrong. You absolutely want to be careful when drilling ANY glass. That being said, it's no worse then drilling near the top or bottom. I've drilled lots of holes, just never set up an overflow like this..

It's not the drilling that had me worried. It was the physics of the drain itself. I've never seen a vertical setup like this. They've always been horizontal. I've looked at it a thousand different ways and my brain says there's no reason why this won't work, as long as I adjust the height of the pipes the same as if they were in a horizontal BA. The drains don't care where the water comes from. If the pipes are oriented correctly, it should work as a typical BA. 1 pipe for full siphon. 1 pipe as an open channel, and the third pipe as an emergency. Eventually the dry emergency pipe will activate an alarm if it ever gets wet, but for now it's just an emergency overflow to save my hide. My wife won't appreciate a flood. :D

 

[Daimyo68]

siphoned water from a tank into a bucket before, you don't need the outlet submerged

I stand corrected. I just haven't read of anyone putting a hole above the water line, (and honestly havent read much about the BA system since the original threads and my first install because I never ran into an issue). After searching just now, I see that some people have done as you mention and have done yourself. I never ran into an issue where I had to do so

 

[Rcpilot]

I think a big part of the BA type drains, is head pressure before the gate valve. To me, it makes more sense to put the gate valve on your full siphon line, as far away from the bulkhead as possible... or as low as possible. From my searches and minimal pictures I can find, the ones with the most problems have at least 1 of 3 things wrong.
1- Too much horizontal in the drain line.
2 - Gate valve too close to the bulkhead.
3 - Not enough water ABOVE the siphon inlet, due to improper length on the open channel pipe.