Shallow Mantis / palurdarium tank setup - thoughts?

[PPBlimpy]

Let me start by saying I have no experience with Mantis Shrimp yet.

warning- long intro because i am just dumping ideas!

I have been thinking about a mantis tank for a while now. Always fascinated with them.
I have read thru a bunch of threads and going to continue to research. As with many projects in their infancy - this may never happen

What is an ideal tank setup? people are saying plexy tank, but also seen reference to glass tank with a plexy sheet on bottom to absorb any accidental hits.

I have also been toying with the ideal of building a paludarium and want to try to incorporate both possibly.
How would the mantis do in a shallow area?

I have a 40G zoo-med reptile enclosure that has the two front doors. The lower panel comes up 6" under the doors.

If I attempted to used this tank it would give an area of 36x18x6. A total volume of only 14G before sand and any rock.

I am looking to glue rocks to the side and back of the tank (similar to my 54G corner tank "left overs" cheap thread plug! )

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ppblimpy%E2%80%99s-54g-corner-tank-left-overs.1155090/

Thus making a ledge that will have Pvc pipe tunnels and sand mounded underneath.

I am thinking of drilling for an overflow that would be semi hidden and return would be up high and build a waterfall with ledges and maybe pools for mangrooves to root.

Waterfall return would be above the ledge with pvc pipe and sand. Overflow would be opposite side of the tank.

I know there will be a tendency for lots of salt creep and thinking I can use my ATO to water down the waterfall.

Sump would be a duplicate of the 10G I built for my 54G (another thread plug - go check it out! )

Return pump would be under 500GPH, uv sterilizer, skimmer and 4" filter sock etc

Lighting would probably just be a cheap LED bar. I have 8x 36" led bars from 21led. 4 are 2:1 12k/actinic and 4 are full actinic.

I would also like to put some macros in the tank. Maybe pulsing xenia on some rock and GSP on the overflow and back wall.

I think I have everything laying around besides the lights for the UV, the skimmer and the 3d printed parts for the sump.


Now if you have made it this far. Care for the mantis? by my research it is not to difficult, cant keep any fish and inverts become lunch. i am okay with that.

Thoughts?

typing this all out i am thinking i just need to find a 40G breeder and start with that over the zoo- med enclosure.

 

[Fish Fan]

@Stomatopods17 may be able to help

What species of Mantid were you considering? I've kept the small, Florida N. wennerae before, they are very easy to keep. The large and popular Peacock Mantis (O. scyllarus) needs to have a tank with PVC hides built for them to do well. They usually need about 40 gallons to be happy.

I'm not sure about using the Zoo-med enclosure, I have one of those, and they are not made to hold water (I have a Kingsnake in mine). You *might* be fine just filling up that bottom 6" or so with water, but I'm not sure if that would work long-term.

I would still keep a decent Clean Up Crew, and let the Mantis take what he wants when he wants, replacing them when they get low.

Good luck!

 

[PPBlimpy]

@Stomatopods17 may be able to help

What species of Mantid were you considering? I've kept the small, Florida N. wennerae before, they are very easy to keep. The large and popular Peacock Mantis (O. scyllarus) needs to have a tank with PVC hides built for them to do well. They usually need about 40 gallons to be happy.

I'm not sure about using the Zoo-med enclosure, I have one of those, and they are not made to hold water (I have a Kingsnake in mine). You *might* be fine just filling up that bottom 6" or so with water, but I'm not sure if that would work long-term.

I would still keep a decent Clean Up Crew, and let the Mantis take what he wants when he wants, replacing them when they get low.

Good luck!

Jjust a small mantis, no idea on species yet. As said the volume will only be about 14 gallons of swimming space. with sump approx 20g.

reconsidering the clean up crew. If it wants to hunt it can. I am familiar with not having a clean up crew. my reef tank has a porcupine puffer he gets hungry or bored and he hunts.

Would be good for the mantis to hunt if he wanted.

Now is water volume important for moving/swimming purposes or more for filtration due to being messy?
i.e. tangs really should have 6' tanks for swimming etc?

My Sulcata tortoise outgrew his tank and is now outside and have the zoo-med sitting here. Figured I could do something with it and having the doors could be nice for the palurdarium portion.
portion.

 

[Fish Fan]

The 40 gallon suggestion was for the Peacock Mantis specifically, they get very large and are very active and messy, so all of the above

But I had the much smaller N. wennerae in a 15 gallon AIO without a problem. You can often find the N. wennerae for free as they come in on live rock form places like Tampa Bay Saltwater. In fact, you can order an N. wennerae directly form TBS if you wanted one:

Florida Mantis Shrimp - TBS farm

Florida mantis shrimp arrive as live rock hitchhikers from the TBS farm.

tbsaltwater.com

Smasher Mantis Box

The TBS Smasher Mantis Box is a excellent way to get a feisty, colorful mantis shrimp set up for your tank! The Mantis Box includes 2 pounds of nano base rock and 2 pounds of our finest live sand. Whether you’re looking for an interactive tank inhabitant or just want to witness nature’s most...

tbsaltwater.com

Here's a list of Stomatopod species with some general care info that may help:

Roy's List of Stomatopods for the Aquarium

 

[Stomatopods17]

#1 issue with mantis shrimp and palurdarium is mantis shrimp jump out of the water without a lid.

I had a refugium setup I had to constantly fish out an N. wennerae back into its compartment cause it would hop over the acrylic panel taller than the water line.

I had an O. Havanensis within literally a second of putting it in the display do a 1 foot leap out onto the floor, I expected it to happen cause its just how it goes with that species but it just happened faster than I could react.

I've had O. scyllarus in buckets do a sizable leap out of the water towards me defensively.

In a palurdarium the immediate thought is one night it'll be dried up on land, sometimes they stay elusive and don't venture much (My G. ternatensis won't even come out for food so I've never had to fish it out of the other compartment for the 2-3 years I've had it) but to do a project like this dedicated to a mantis wouldn't be a gamble I'd try personally.

_____

Also water in a zoo med enclosure isn't a great idea, they're ok with false bottoms or a large water pool but not the weight of saltwater live rock, wet sand, and water up to a fill line.

 

[PPBlimpy]

#1 issue with mantis shrimp and palurdarium is mantis shrimp jump out of the water without a lid.

I had a refugium setup I had to constantly fish out an N. wennerae back into its compartment cause it would hop over the acrylic panel taller than the water line.

I had an O. Havanensis within literally a second of putting it in the display do a 1 foot leap out onto the floor, I expected it to happen cause its just how it goes with that species but it just happened faster than I could react.

I've had O. scyllarus in buckets do a sizable leap out of the water towards me defensively.

In a palurdarium the immediate thought is one night it'll be dried up on land, sometimes they stay elusive and don't venture much (My G. ternatensis won't even come out for food so I've never had to fish it out of the other compartment for the 2-3 years I've had it) but to do a project like this dedicated to a mantis wouldn't be a gamble I'd try personally.

_____

Also water in a zoo med enclosure isn't a great idea, they're ok with false bottoms or a large water pool but not the weight of saltwater live rock, wet sand, and water up to a fill line.

This is great info!

I have not seen references anywhere that they can be jumpers!
The zoo med tank is probably out if I do continue with the project. I do not think it would be deep enough for my liking once sand is added. Glass thickness is questionable and with a mantis thin glass sounds like a bad mix

A 40g breeder and I would feel better about 8” waterline I think.
I could make the rock work so there is no flat area on the dry side. Could all be sloped but possibility would still be there to catch jumper.

I do not want to do only a mantis tank, I think they are very neat but I could see them get boring. That’s why I was thinking softie/paludarium would keep the tank more appealing.

I also really like to diy stuff

 

[Hadla]

I've had O. scyllarus in buckets do a sizable leap out of the water towards me defensively.
_____

Omg I immediately thought of the oatmeal comic onetwothreedeath!

 

[Stomatopods17]

i would simply avoid stomatopods for palurdariums to be blunt, unless you did a floating island type of setup where the water is several inches (5+) below a shelf line. I would actually even go the emphasis of saying better off keeping a giant orb weaver spider in a mangrove above the water without losing them than a stomatopod.

Couldn't even recommend the sedentary stomatopods like L. Maculata cause 8" isn't enough height for sand, mud setups are really difficult for some of the squillids.

I'd recommend looking at more unique stuff most don't get the opportunity to do cause they actually require something like a palurdarium, such as soldier crabs (semi-terrestrial), and red burrowing crabs. You could instead do more sedentary fish like frogfish, NPS reefs with stationary scallops, clams, etc. The orb weaver was a semi-serious suggestion since not much tolerates sea water (no lizards or frogs) but it would actually stay in a web it maintains once it sets up inbetween the ceiling and the plants or rocks. I would not trust any arboreal tarantulas though, the ones even safe to be bit by aren't that sedentary, they're fast unlike orb weavers, and setae is a concern for pets or fans.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

@Danny's Aquariums

 

[PPBlimpy]

i would simply avoid stomatopods for palurdariums to be blunt, unless you did a floating island type of setup where the water is several inches (5+) below a shelf line. I would actually even go the emphasis of saying better off keeping a giant orb weaver spider in a mangrove above the water without losing them than a stomatopod.

Couldn't even recommend the sedentary stomatopods like L. Maculata cause 8" isn't enough height for sand, mud setups are really difficult for some of the squillids.

I'd recommend looking at more unique stuff most don't get the opportunity to do cause they actually require something like a palurdarium, such as soldier crabs (semi-terrestrial), and red burrowing crabs. You could instead do more sedentary fish like frogfish, NPS reefs with stationary scallops, clams, etc. The orb weaver was a semi-serious suggestion since not much tolerates sea water (no lizards or frogs) but it would actually stay in a web it maintains once it sets up inbetween the ceiling and the plants or rocks.

Appreciate the feedback.
The more research I do it seems to be a bad combo. I will look into other aquatic fish or creatures to put in it. Nothing really pops to mind that i want to do eventually other then an octopus eventually (not in this tank).

I will look into other inhabitants.

I could always just do a softie tank with a pair of clowns and a nice BTA. I have a very nice pair of Darwin clowns I could pull from my big tank and give a very nice little setup for them.

For the paludraium section I am just looking at plants. I definitely do not need to ad anymore reptiles into my home. Its almost as bad as my fish tank. I Just moved my sulcata tortoise to his forever outside enclosure a couple weeks back.

Orb weaver would be cool but the wife would kill me.