Been fighting cyano for too long

[dieselkeeper]

I have recurring cyano. Past 2-3 years. Mostly on the sandbed. Tank is 210 gal that is 10+ years old. I've removed the cyano from the sandbed using a 3/4 inch pvc pipe plumbed to a 1 inch hose. I removed a bunch of sand in the process. Added chemiclean. It goes away only to have it return in 3-4 months. For years now I'm having to dose nitrates. If I don't, nitrates bottoms out. I use Loudwolf sodium nitrate. Dose 70 ml a day to keep nitrates at 5-7 ppm. Phosphates is at 0.04 ppm. 3x Tunze 6105 is used for flow. I've tried hydrogen peroxide, started losing corals from probably overdosing a bit. I feed pellets and nori once a day. I'm about ready to go to fish only. Then I would not need strong lighting. I feel like I did every thing I could. Read all the post on it. Any body have any

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

do you have good flow going across the bottom of your tank?

 

[Lavey29]

Have you researched "old tank syndrome" too see how age affects the sandbed along with the depth of the sand?

 

[ColoredRock]

So from my personal experience with chem clean is that I would kill off all most of the bacteria in my system... clean up the cyno.. it would repopulate and .. then rinse and repeat. This gave cyno a competitive advantage over other bacteria and it would out compete the beneficial bacteria.
Here is what I did. If you have a deeper sand bed i would ignore this as you could do more harm than good....or just do sections at a time.

My mechanical filtration consists of socks and skimmer and I carbon dose with bio pellets for now. My phosphates run at .15-.2 ish ( am am slowly bringing them down) and I have to dose nitrates as well, I adjust my nitrates and try and keep them detectable. (works for me) Im not looking to keep hi-end coral just want to keep a fairly nuisance free tanks.

Manual removal via suction....Turkey baster.

• 1 teaspoon of Calcium Carbonate to 1 cup tank water per 50 gallons. (I add Microbacter7 if I see any cyno haven't since i cleared it up the fist time.)
• Stir it up.
• Turn off Return and Skimmer but keep Flow pumps (powerheads) going. for 30-40 mins
• Clean glass
• Turkey baster.... sand bed. Mine is 1-1.5 inches.
• Dose Mixture. System will go cloudy white. Fish Hid but come out after it clears.
• Keep flow pumps (powerheads) Running for 30 -40 mins.
• Turn Return pump Back on
• Turn Skimmer back on.

My system (350 gallon water volume) clears in about an hour. swap socks.

Once every week or 2..... or as needed. I got this from.. you can do a search on:

@SunnyX

https://reefsite.com/extreme-water-clarity-made-easy/

 

[dieselkeeper]

do you have good flow going across the bottom of your tank?

I have a tunze on a sea sweep. Flow bounces off the front glass.

Have you researched "old tank syndrome" too see how age affects the sandbed along with the depth of the sand?

Old tank syndrome is high nitrates. I have to dose nitrates to keep it above zero.

So from my personal experience with chem clean is that I would kill off all most of the bacteria in my system... clean up the cyno.. it would repopulate and .. then rinse and repeat. This gave cyno a competitive advantage over other bacteria and it would out compete the beneficial bacteria.
Here is what I did. If you have a deeper sand bed i would ignore this as you could do more harm than good....or just do sections at a time.

My mechanical filtration consists of socks and skimmer and I carbon dose with bio pellets for now. My phosphates run at .15-.2 ish ( am am slowly bringing them down) and I have to dose nitrates as well, I adjust my nitrates and try and keep them detectable. (works for me) Im not looking to keep hi-end coral just want to keep a fairly nuisance free tanks.

Manual removal via suction....Turkey baster.

• 1 teaspoon of Calcium Carbonate to 1 cup tank water per 50 gallons. (I add Microbacter7 if I see any cyno haven't since i cleared it up the fist time.)
• Stir it up.
• Turn off Return and Skimmer but keep Flow pumps (powerheads) going. for 30-40 mins
• Clean glass
• Turkey baster.... sand bed. Mine is 1-1.5 inches.
• Dose Mixture. System will go cloudy white. Fish Hid but come out after it clears.
• Keep flow pumps (powerheads) Running for 30 -40 mins.
• Turn Return pump Back on
• Turn Skimmer back on.

My system (350 gallon water volume) clears in about an hour. swap socks.

Once every week or 2..... or as needed. I got this from.. you can do a search on:

@SunnyX

https://reefsite.com/extreme-water-clarity-made-easy/

I'm gonna give it a try. I have the stuff needed ordered. My cyano is pretty bad, how long do you think before I see some progress?

 

[Lavey29]

I have a tunze on a sea sweep. Flow bounces off the front glass.

Old tank syndrome is high nitrates. I have to dose nitrates to keep it above zero.

I'm gonna give it a try. I have the stuff needed ordered. My cyano is pretty bad, how long do you think before I see some progress?

That's because your cyano is consuming your nutrients as fast as they enter the system. Old tank syndrome is more then just nitrates though. It's your biome being so convoluted that it can not process as it used to.

 

[Reefkeepers Archive]

I had a cyanno outbreak during the cycle. Added pods and it disappeared in weeks, haven't touched the sandbed since and it hasn't returned. It's been ~4 months for me

 

[ColoredRock]

I have a tunze on a sea sweep. Flow bounces off the front glass.

Old tank syndrome is high nitrates. I have to dose nitrates to keep it above zero.

I'm gonna give it a try. I have the stuff needed ordered. My cyano is pretty bad, how long do you think before I see some progress?

mine cleared after a couple weeks... I siphoned out as much as I could and took a power head to the rocks. to get it into the water column so the mechanical filtration could help as much as possible replacing the socks as soon as the water cleared... I also saw an significant pod increase.. not sure if that was correlation or causation..

 

[BetterJake]

So from my personal experience with chem clean is that I would kill off all most of the bacteria in my system... clean up the cyno.. it would repopulate and .. then rinse and repeat. This gave cyno a competitive advantage over other bacteria and it would out compete the beneficial bacteria.
Here is what I did. If you have a deeper sand bed i would ignore this as you could do more harm than good....or just do sections at a time.

My mechanical filtration consists of socks and skimmer and I carbon dose with bio pellets for now. My phosphates run at .15-.2 ish ( am am slowly bringing them down) and I have to dose nitrates as well, I adjust my nitrates and try and keep them detectable. (works for me) Im not looking to keep hi-end coral just want to keep a fairly nuisance free tanks.

Manual removal via suction....Turkey baster.

• 1 teaspoon of Calcium Carbonate to 1 cup tank water per 50 gallons. (I add Microbacter7 if I see any cyno haven't since i cleared it up the fist time.)
• Stir it up.
• Turn off Return and Skimmer but keep Flow pumps (powerheads) going. for 30-40 mins
• Clean glass
• Turkey baster.... sand bed. Mine is 1-1.5 inches.
• Dose Mixture. System will go cloudy white. Fish Hid but come out after it clears.
• Keep flow pumps (powerheads) Running for 30 -40 mins.
• Turn Return pump Back on
• Turn Skimmer back on.

My system (350 gallon water volume) clears in about an hour. swap socks.

Once every week or 2..... or as needed. I got this from.. you can do a search on:

@SunnyX

https://reefsite.com/extreme-water-clarity-made-easy/

+1

The DIY 'Coral Snow' & MB7 seems to be keeping my red cyano in check

 

[Reefcatch]

Use Chemiclean one dose took care of my 240 gallon tank
I have high end SPS and 17 fish all fine … just make sure to add air stone pump during the treatment.

 

[ColoredRock]

Use Chemiclean one dose took care of my 240 gallon tank
I have high end SPS and 17 fish all fine … just make sure to add air stone pump during the treatment.

..... Added chemiclean. It goes away only to have it return in 3-4 months. .....

He did.. didnt work for him.... with every tank its all an experiment.

 

[dieselkeeper]

That's because your cyano is consuming your nutrients as fast as they enter the system. Old tank syndrome is more then just nitrates though. It's your biome being so convoluted that it can not process as it used to.

I'm aware of that. I'm dosing 70 ml a day to keep nitrates around 5ppm. How do I stop dosing and keep nitrates above zero?

Use Chemiclean one dose took care of my 240 gallon tank
I have high end SPS and 17 fish all fine … just make sure to add air stone pump during the treatment.

Last month I did chemiclean twice, back to back. A month later looks like I never did chemiclean.

 

[Lavey29]

I'm aware of that. I'm dosing 70 ml a day to keep nitrates around 5ppm. How do I stop dosing and keep nitrates above zero?

Last month I did chemiclean twice, back to back. A month later looks like I never did chemiclean.

This is why I referenced old tank syndrome which if you research it leads to a variety of nuisance algae and bacteria issues such as your never ending cyano now.

Cyano also relies heavily on light and lack of flow. You can decrease lights to 6 hours with blue and uv only. No whites and increase flow in the tank towards affected areas.

 

[Spare time]

Do you have a lot of copepod predators? Maybe consider adding more of those

 

[coral reeftank]

It sounds like the usage of chemiclean in your tank has left an ecological niche wide open. The chemiclean will cause a mini "microbial reset". Since Cyano is opportunistic it appears that it is out competing the other microbes in your system after your treatments.

I've kept cyano out of my systems since I started using zeozym in conjunction with a plethora of other bacteria products. In order to prevent future cyano blooms, you will need to increase the microbial competition in your system so that the cyano does not take a foothold. Pods, macroalgae, and probiotic bacteria are great methods to increase the competition in your system and help mitigate cyano.

 

[Subsea]

It sounds like the usage of chemiclean in your tank has left an ecological niche wide open. The chemiclean will cause a mini "microbial reset". Since Cyano is opportunistic it appears that it is out competing the other microbes in your system after your treatments.

I've kept cyano out of my systems since I started using zeozym in conjunction with a plethora of other bacteria products. In order to prevent future cyano blooms, you will need to increase the microbial competition in your system so that the cyano does not take a foothold. Pods, macroalgae, and probiotic bacteria are great methods to increase the competition in your system and help mitigate cyano.

Kudos to this post.

Nature abhors a vacume. Just as in a garden, when you weed if you don’t plant a cover crop, the weeds will return. Because Cyanobacteria has developed survival techniques, it is opportunistic and thrives with low nutrients.

Adding sodium nitrate for a nitrogen source will accumulate sodium. Consider NH4 or potassium nitrate.

 

[Dburr1014]

I'm aware of that. I'm dosing 70 ml a day to keep nitrates around 5ppm. How do I stop dosing and keep nitrates above zero?

Why do you have to keep it above zero?
Are you feeding?
Do you have po4?
Do you stir up the sand?

Let the tank do it's thing for a month and see what happens.

I used to get cyano in my sump it's always worried about it. I stopped caring, stop dosing NO3.

My tank is almost 10 years old and my NO3 has been zero since April. My cyano is a lot less than it used to be and sometimes I have none but it's always in the sump and never in the tank.

I also agree with the two previous posters.

 

[dieselkeeper]

This is why I referenced old tank syndrome which if you research it leads to a variety of nuisance algae and bacteria issues such as your never ending cyano now.

Cyano also relies heavily on light and lack of flow. You can decrease lights to 6 hours with blue and uv only. No whites and increase flow in the tank towards affected areas.

Plan on cleaning power heads and cutting back on lighting.

Do you have a lot of copepod predators? Maybe consider adding more of those

Melanurus wrasse. He eats anything, including nori.

It sounds like the usage of chemiclean in your tank has left an ecological niche wide open. The chemiclean will cause a mini "microbial reset". Since Cyano is opportunistic it appears that it is out competing the other microbes in your system after your treatments.

I've kept cyano out of my systems since I started using zeozym in conjunction with a plethora of other bacteria products. In order to prevent future cyano blooms, you will need to increase the microbial competition in your system so that the cyano does not take a foothold. Pods, macroalgae, and probiotic bacteria are great methods to increase the competition in your system and help mitigate cyano.

Probiotic bacteria, MB7 is good or do you recommend something else?

Why do you have to keep it above zero?
Are you feeding?
Do you have po4?
Do you stir up the sand?

Let the tank do it's thing for a month and see what happens.

I used to get cyano in my sump it's always worried about it. I stopped caring, stop dosing NO3.

My tank is almost 10 years old and my NO3 has been zero since April. My cyano is a lot less than it used to be and sometimes I have none but it's always in the sump and never in the tank.

I also agree with the two previous posters.

It seems to be affecting corals. One monti for sure. Keep it above zero to feed corals. Use to vacuum sand bed where cyano was present, but noticed cyano would always come back spot first. This is why I will clean my power heads to help with flow.

 

[Dburr1014]

Coral need ammonia/ammonium, not nitrate. We only test for nitrate because it's left over.
Bacteria need the phosphate and coral eat the bacteria. This is how coral get phosphate.

You have an imbalance.
Keep doing what your doing and you will get the same results.

We are saying change your ways.
Try sunnyx way.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/extreme-water-clarity-and-cyano-eradication-made-easy.916381/page-3&ved=2ahUKEwjQ2-_c3L6CAxV2vokEHb6yBmwQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ItkSOd0jnSa4kXZ_JqJUB

 

[Tavero]

Adding sodium nitrate for a nitrogen source will accumulate sodium. Consider NH4 or potassium nitrate.

Bad idea. Accumulating potassium is a lot easier than sodium. Also, just instantly switching from nitrate to ammonia can crash the tank because there arent enough bacteria to turn it into nitrate.

Coral need ammonia/ammonium, not nitrate. We only test for nitrate because it's left over.
Bacteria need the phosphate and coral eat the bacteria. This is how coral get phosphate.

You have an imbalance.
Keep doing what your doing and you will get the same results.

We are saying change your ways.
Try sunnyx way.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/extreme-water-clarity-and-cyano-eradication-made-easy.916381/page-3&ved=2ahUKEwjQ2-_c3L6CAxV2vokEHb6yBmwQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ItkSOd0jnSa4kXZ_JqJUB

Not true. Corals prefer ammonia but they can use nitrate too by expending a bit of energy. Same goes for algae, plants and some bacteria. Randy wrote explanation about that in his chemistry section.

I do agree that Chemiclean probably killed a lot of bacterial diversity in OP tank. But he had cyanos before that.
He won't get rid of them by switching to dosing ammonia.

I personally got rid of my cyano by dosing cyano solution but if there is no competition then the cyano will just get replaced by dinos. Or worse.