Bicolor angel not eating

ErikVR · May 30, 2023

Hi all,

I've had this beautiful bicolor angel in my 625L tank for 15 days now. He came in at about 9cm (3.5 in) and looked really healthy when he arrived. From the moment he get into the tank he went in hiding. Now 15 days later he still barely comes out of the rocks.

I haven't really seen him eat. I've tried frozen mysis, frozen and live brine shrimp, JBL plankton pur and Vitalis marine grazer. He won't really eat any of it. He does go after pretty much every food I put in but he either stops or deflects just before taking it. When he does take something in his mouth, he shakes his head a few times but doesn't spit it back out.

He's the biggest guy in the tank. There is no agression at all.
He's in there with 2 clowns, 2 banggai cardinals, 4 azure damsels, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 six line wrasse and 1 royal gramma.

The strang thing is that he still looks healthy and not really skinny.
Any suggestions to get him to eat? All the other fish are eating like crazy. Ammonia is at 0 and nitrate near 0.

fishguy242 · May 30, 2023

@Jay Hemdal ,TIA

Jay Hemdal · May 30, 2023

Do you know more of the history of this fish? Was it feeding for the dealer before you acquired it? If not, then there may be an issue with how the fish was collected. Fish from Indonesia and the Philippines are still sometimes collected using sodium cyanide. It is most commonly used on cryptic fish like pygmy angels and basslets. This makes the fish much easier to capture, but also leaves some of them with lasting internal organ damage. That often shows as not eating. I've done three informal studies over the years that indicate that the mortality rate for these fish in the first 40 days, can exceed 50% (from all causes). Cyanide collection is a large portion of that.

That said, the EU has been fairly proactive at reducing the incidence of this problem, but I imagine some fish still slip through.

If that is the case here, there isn't any solution, sorry.

Here is an article I wrote on sourcing marine fishes:

Sourcing Marine Fishes and Invertebrates

Sourcing Marine Fishes and Invertebrates Experienced aquarists are aware that fishes from different regions of the world can have different levels of sustainability when acquired for their aquariums. The reasons for these differences may include...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

ErikVR · May 30, 2023

That's a little disheartening to read @Jay Hemdal but thank you for the response. That was an interesting read.

I don't have a history but it was shipped to me from the most highly rated (and expensive) coral and fish store in the country. From now on I'll definitely do some research into the origin of the fish I intend to buy. Although a store's word is probably worth nothing when it comes to this...

I assumed most fish were tank bred these days. Is there any way of making sure they are?
This guy was pretty big but the store also has lots of tiny ones. Is there a higher chance of them being tank bred if they are still a really small size?

Fichmiester · May 30, 2023

My bicolor went almost 3 weeks without eating on purchase. He had to learn it from the others in the tank. Had very little success during QT process with food. Will say, for the past year+ he was the biggest in my tank, up until very recently…and he always has been the least aggressive towards food in the tank.

Jay Hemdal · May 30, 2023

ErikVR said:
That's a little disheartening to read @Jay Hemdal but thank you for the response. That was an interesting read.

I don't have a history but it was shipped to me from the most highly rated (and expensive) coral and fish store in the country. From now on I'll definitely do some research into the origin of the fish I intend to buy. Although a store's word is probably worth nothing when it comes to this...

I assumed most fish were tank bred these days. Is there any way of making sure they are?
This guy was pretty big but the store also has lots of tiny ones. Is there a higher chance of them being tank bred if they are still a really small size?

As far as know, this species is not being captively propagated. It may have been bred as a one off, but are not in the trade now.
For captive angelfish, they are sold at smaller size and higher price - and so are sold as “captive raised” as it is a “value add”.

Keep trying live brine shrimp on it, that is a good enticer. On other angels, live mussels on the half shell works, maybe try that also?

Jay

KorD · May 30, 2023

Have you tried live brine shrimp? I am trying to teach my wrasse to eat frozen. It just picks at the tank and rocks a good majority of the day. I also will be adding more snakes to my cuc because they are magically disappearing

ErikVR · May 30, 2023

KorD said:
Have you tried live brine shrimp?

Yep that was the first thing I tried when he wouldn't eat.

ErikVR · May 30, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
As far as know, this species is not being captively propagated.

Is there any way of knowing which types of fish are captive bred?
To me it feels wrong to have a fish in a glass box that has had a taste of the ocean.
Maybe that's a stupid feeling to have in this hobby but I guess it's a personal thing.

ErikVR · May 30, 2023

Fichmiester said:
My bicolor went almost 3 weeks without eating on purchase. He had to learn it from the others in the tank. Had very little success during QT process with food. Will say, for the past year+ he was the biggest in my tank, up until very recently…and he always has been the least aggressive towards food in the tank.

That's good to read! Hoping for the same

Jay Hemdal · May 30, 2023

ErikVR said:
Is there any way of knowing which types of fish are captive bred?
To me it feels wrong to have a fish in a glass box that has had a taste of the ocean.
Maybe that's a stupid feeling to have in this hobby but I guess it's a personal thing.

Captive bred is a selling point, so it is usually stated at the point of sale because captive raised fish are more valuable.
Biota is one company that offers a large range of captive raised marine fish.
Jay

ErikVR · Jun 5, 2023

This guy has been in the tank for over three weeks now and he's still in hiding and won't come out to eat. But he still looks pretty healthy to me when I catch a glimpse of him in between rocks. He must be eating something, right?

Jay Hemdal · Jun 5, 2023

ErikVR said:
This guy has been in the tank for over three weeks now and he's still in hiding and won't come out to eat. But he still looks pretty healthy to me when I catch a glimpse of him in between rocks. He must be eating something, right?

I always prefer to confirm a fish is eating by seeing it….some fish can go a surprisingly long time before looking noticeably skinny. I once had a large saddleback butterflyfish that didn’t eat for many months and looked as good as when it arrived.
Here is a link to an article I wrote on chronic anorexia in fishes:

Chronic Anorexia in Aquarium Fishes

Don't fall into the trap of assuming the fish will begin feeding when it gets hungry enough, or conclude it must be eating something, just not when you are watching.

reefs.com

Jay

ErikVR · Jun 5, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
I always prefer to confirm a fish is eating by seeing it….some fish can go a surprisingly long time before looking noticeably skinny. I once had a large saddleback butterflyfish that didn’t eat for many months and looked as good as when it arrived.
Here is a link to an article I wrote on chronic anorexia in fishes:

Chronic Anorexia in Aquarium Fishes

Don't fall into the trap of assuming the fish will begin feeding when it gets hungry enough, or conclude it must be eating something, just not when you are watching.

reefs.com

Jay

Thanks for the link Jay. In all my years in the freshwater hobby, I've never had this issue with a fish. But then again, they are all tank bred fish.

I'm pretty sure I can rule out environmental issues as the water is near perfect. Very low nutrients. No ammonia or nitrite. Very very little nitrate. My lighting has been turned down.

I added a powderbrown tang that had been in my QT tank for 3 weeks and that drew the bicolor out for a night but that didn't last long.

Would it be a good idea to try and get him out, move him to my QT tank and leave him there on his own for a while? Or would the stress of the move cause more harm than it will do him good?

Jay Hemdal · Jun 5, 2023

ErikVR said:
Thanks for the link Jay. In all my years in the freshwater hobby, I've never had this issue with a fish. But then again, they are all tank bred fish.

I'm pretty sure I can rule out environmental issues as the water is near perfect. Very low nutrients. No ammonia or nitrite. Very very little nitrate. My lighting has been turned down.

I added a powderbrown tang that had been in my QT tank for 3 weeks and that drew the bicolor out for a night but that didn't last long.

Would it be a good idea to try and get him out, move him to my QT tank and leave him there on his own for a while? Or would the stress of the move cause more harm than it will do him good?

I would say moving it to a QT would just reinforce the issues that are keeping it from eating - best to leave it where it is and just keep trying different foods. Avoid observing it so closely that your presence keeps it scared.
Jay

LaloJ · Jun 6, 2023

ErikVR said:
This guy has been in the tank for over three weeks now and he's still in hiding and won't come out to eat. But he still looks pretty healthy to me when I catch a glimpse of him in between rocks. He must be eating something, right?

You have a sizeable fish, I really hope it has not been caught with cyanide, if this is not the case then patience is going to be key for you, it's possible that the fish is gathering food from live rocks without you realize, many times the feeding response occurs after the fish detects the food but does not take it, it prepares to do so later. Angels and butterflyfish generally refuse food when the fish are adults, it's difficult to get them to eat but not impossible at all, if you want to try a fish like these later then get a 2 or 3" juvenile fish, or a size minor, but I really hope you have luck with this guy.

ErikVR · Jun 6, 2023

Thanks for the feedback. I always sit down a few meters away after dropping in the food.

ErikVR · Jun 6, 2023

Update on the little guy.. I thought he looked healthy when peeking at him through the rocks but when I just fed the tank he came out and immediately got sucked onto the wave maker. That's how weak he actually is.

I killed the pump right away and scooped the poor guy out and transfered him to the QT where he's now alone. He sure wasn't going to survive in the DT. He probably won't survive in the QT either but at least it's not a 100% death sentence.