BIG AND LOUD CONTROLLER COMPARISON THREAD

[Sleepydoc]

Devaji, you summarized my thoughts on all the pros/cons exactly! (Thanks for the cable link, too.) Perhaps Terrance can tell us what the difference between the 24V accessory ports and the 24V 1link ports on the EB 832s. My understanding is that the 1Link ports also have a data line, so they can communicate with 'smarter' devices like their design pumps, etc. It would be nice if they could be used as 'dumb' 24V ports as well.

 

[ProjectAnemone]

A chart like this (including all manufacturers) would be nice.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?c=3578&articleid=3026

 

[SethOF]

How much is the Apex 2016 brain without all the other stuff like EB32, probes and all?

 

[Daniel@R2R]

How much is the Apex 2016 brain without all the other stuff like EB32, probes and all?

I don't think they're selling it by itself yet.

 

[hybridazn]

How much is the Apex 2016 brain without all the other stuff like EB32, probes and all?

I don't think they're selling it by itself yet.

I'm patiently waiting for this to become available lol

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I have my new Apex set up, and I will say that I'm VERY happy with it so far. I have a GHL Profilux that I will be setting up on my frag system, so more comparisons will be forthcoming.

 

[andrew james]

How much is the Apex 2016 brain without all the other stuff like EB32, probes and all?

I don't think they're selling it by itself yet.

Neptune will sell them stand alone. I bought one from them as a backup. If I remember correctly mine was $475

 

[Clayton Jessup]

So do I go (the less common in the states) GHL P-4 or do i jump on the bandwagon and go APEX , for my new reef build , I am leaning a lot on the P4 thanks to influence from d2mini

 

[Daniel@R2R]

So do I go (the less common in the states) GHL P-4 or do i jump on the bandwagon and go APEX , for my new reef build , I am leaning a lot on the P4 thanks to influence from d2mini

I don't think either one is a bad decision.

 

[Labridaedicted]

I used a RKL for years with a few add ons like an extra pb4 and a pc1. I used it to control my temp via a chiller and a heater, my koralias in a wavemaking pattern, and my lighting (halide and vho). I used a separate ph controller for my calcium reactor, but had the ph monitor on the rkl as a safety check. So if the ph in the tank got too low or high, it would kill the feed pump to the calcium reactor to prevent it throwing the ph out of whack. (Regulator failure or other such problems)

So, with the rkl, I found it to be incredibly reliable even with numerous power outages from hurricanes and floods and the like. It maintained my parameters and did everything I asked. The problem with it was the interface. I found it tedious and cumbersome to program and navigate the system from the controller. The pc interface was also not as user friendly (imo) as some other brands, as well. The modules available were also limited as compared to other brands.

I recently picked up an apex and haven't ran it yet (it's going to run the 180 while the rkl runs the 29 for now). I can add some input on the apex once i've gotten it programmed up and running some things.

 

[HolisticBear]

I don't think either one is a bad decision.

+1

I went with a P4 in large part due to this thread. Only one week and a few hours with the unit. I am happy with it and feel I made the right decision for ME. Even though I knew it was PC focused, I am surprised how PC focused it feels.

If you were to design something today fresh, it would probably be 100% controlled by the cloud and/or smartphone app. Just connecting to the unit & setting timezone, wifi, felt like the way things USED to be done a long time ago. I haven't used the myGHL cloud yet so caveat applies.

If you get either unit, I'm confident there are lots of R2R members, including myself, that will help you setup and configure your unit.

 

[Clayton Jessup]

+1

I went with a P4 in large part due to this thread. Only one week and a few hours with the unit. I am happy with it and feel I made the right decision for ME. Even though I knew it was PC focused, I am surprised how PC focused it feels.

If you were to design something today fresh, it would probably be 100% controlled by the cloud and/or smartphone app. Just connecting to the unit & setting timezone, wifi, felt like the way things USED to be done a long time ago. I haven't used the myGHL cloud yet so caveat applies.

If you get either unit, I'm confident there are lots of R2R members, including myself, that will help you setup and configure your unit.

Thank you very much MrMichael. As of right now I am thinking I may go the P4 route . I am planning on a controller , before I even set up my tank so that everything is already there and no need to change things down the line when my new build is full of water ..
thank you all for the input on my comment.

 

[madweazl]

A chart like this (including all manufacturers) would be nice.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?c=3578&articleid=3026

The chart would be endless with something like the Reef Angel though.

 

[HolisticBear]

Thank you very much MrMichael. As of right now I am thinking I may go the P4 route . I am planning on a controller , before I even set up my tank so that everything is already there and no need to change things down the line when my new build is full of water ..
thank you all for the input on my comment.

I think @Reefer525XL recent post on both is well-written and potentially useful to others. I have the benefit of starting with the latest P4 firmware while he was an early-adopter, but his reactions ring true.

 

[SaltwaterAq]

This is exactly why I jumped on the GHL bandwagon. We will see if I made the right decision a year from now lol.

What is the verdict? We are looking seriously into bringing in the GHL Controller on scale.

 

[MnFish1]

I've been playing with controllers for decades, and built my own using home alarm systems 20+ years ago. For the past 5 years I've been an extreme Apex User and gotten lots of people up and running with Apex. If you take the time you can get the Apex to do just about anything you want. The problem is .when you have it do everything, you end up risking everything.

Since Terrence was good enough to show off a bunch of fancy Orange cars to justify their company color scheme, I will use an auto as an example. 1000's of Ford Mustangs drive off the lot every day. Now let's be honest, they all aren't bright orange. But the fact is behind every Ford Dealership is a Ford Service center. But for most people they get in their cars, they put in their gas and they drive happily around. And the Apex is pretty good at letting the average Joe pop open a box and start controlling and monitoring their aquarium.

But then you have the people that soup up the stereo, slam the suspension, put on the bigger tires, and throw on the turbos. If you are one of those people that has built a custom car, or owned a custom car, or has a friend that owns a custom car. You know that every time you drive it, there is something that you need to go home and work on. And if you are like me and have owned boats you know this example well.

When you start having the Apex do everything it is capable of doing the reliability factor (in my extensive experience) becomes an issue. The people that have 'fully loaded' Apex units overlook this because they love their tinkering and all their custom features. And at that point have spent so much time rebooting it and reflashing it that it less than 100% functional and/or reliable becomes the 'norm'.

And while the cloud 'functionability' and 'accessibility' is really cool - When the cloud service does an update and unbeknownst to you your heater outlet instead of being switched on/off based on your aquarium temp.... turns into an oscillating pump outlet - Guess how you discover this?

Or perhaps you set your Alkalinity to dose 15ml, and the cloud tells you it's 15ml and then you discover its actually putting in 750ml.

With any controller regardless of manufacturer, or 70's color scheme - be wary of what you let them control. All of them are just another component (built by the cheapest bidding circuit manufacturer) we add to our aquarium - and components fail ( and around salt water - much more often). I don't let controllers turn main pumps on. I will use a relay or contactor to shut the pump off. But in the event my controller 'hiccups' my water keeps circulating.

And someone is going to say -- Well my power bars are smart and I can set them to revert to an on or off state. Well that's a great feature when things are working normally. But when the skimmer mate hits the fan --- there is never a guarantee that this will work.

If you have a controller now, run this scenario.... Santa Claus comes down your chimney while you're sleeping. Santa sees your sexy Aquarium controller. Santa says I want that for Missus Clauses 120g SPS tank and grabs your controller, runs up the chimney, yells at Rudolph and away your controller goes. The following morning when you stroll downstairs, whats the status of your tank without it's all mighty controller?

Make sure that when Santa steals your controller, that your aquarium will be able to survive without it. You don't have to buy duplicates of every piece of equipment. But you should make sure that the basics - Flow and Temp - are configured to maintain your livestock - if Santa should nab your controller.

And the other thing I recommend to everyone that has a controller is, where is your spare? The brains of the controllers is pretty inexpensive compared to the entire 'controller' system. And I guarantee if you have a full controller on your aquarium, the cost of a spare brain is way less than the value of the corals on just the first 5" on the left side of your tank. Amazing customer support and tech support (no matter where it is in the world) can't fix what is broke on your tank.

All those cool outlets telling you the watts your consuming, those probes telling you your stats, those laborious lighting schedules you wrote to simulate the dusk /dawn lighting on that little island where you first met your supermodel 'second' wife in the South Pacific -- All that is useless. Think about all those things your controller is monitoring and controlling on your tank at this very minute. It's Friday night. On Saturday morning when you wake up and discover Santa jacked your controller. What's your tank going to do till Marine Depot can drop a new controller at your door step on Tues or Weds? Buy a spare brain!!!! These are little computers running our tanks - have backups just like you have for your computer. Keep your programming backed up (on the cloud perhaps) and keep your brain updated if you make major changes to your configuration.
Dave B

I agree with everything you say here - I have a couple Apex Controllers and tried to get all of the modules to control everything through them. I subsequently found it much easier to merely use the apex as a monitoring or double-check system rather than 'to control' my tank. For me it became much easier to use the Maxspect controller - with my gyre - than the apex interface, same with the radion lights. It also means that if there is a problem, with the apex - those things continue to work properly. The apex controls the heater - but it has a backup thermostat as well.

The Apex Fusion interface is great for seeing whats happening in your tank while your away - and starting and stopping things during maintenance.

I dont need an extra brain - mainly because I designed my system such that if the apex fails, I can plug my quipment into a power strip and wait to get it fixed. I would never to back to the time when I tried to have the apex do everything - for exactly the reasons you describe. '

 

[MaiReef]

Question for Prolifux users...
Do they have an auto top off like the ATK from APEX?
Will the ATK work with the prolifux?
What about Jebeo pumps and wavemakers?

 

[BCSreef]

Question for Prolifux users...
Do they have an auto top off like the ATK from APEX?
Will the ATK work with the prolifux?
What about Jebeo pumps and wavemakers?

Yes, I have the P4 running a dual sensor ATO. Works well.

I'm not sure how the Apex ATK is wired, so I can't comment on compatibility.

If the Jebeos accept a 1-10 volt input for speed control, the answer is yes. I have not yet done that, but I have a DC pump that i know will work with the P4 via the 1-10 volt P4 interface.

Hope that helps!

 

[d2mini]

Question for Prolifux users...
Do they have an auto top off like the ATK from APEX?

Yep, you buy their level sensors. One or two or however you want to run it. And use whatever pump you want.
And you can also use the same level sensors to run an auto water change setup if you want. The programming is built in to the P4.

 

[Sleepydoc]

I'm not sure how the Apex ATK is wired, so I can't comment on compatibility.

The Neptune ATK programming is kind of interesting. Neptune uses the FMM module as an interface for optical sensors and flow sensors. The FMM firmware has the ATK programming hard-coded into it, so if you plug it in without connecting it to an Apex, it functions as a stand alone ATO system with some default alarms. Once you plug it into an Apex controller, you have complete control over the programming. The module has 4 sensor jacks. The first 2 are set up for the sump level sensors that come with the ATO. By default, the other two can be used for a leak deterction sensor and an ATO reservoir low level sensor in stand alone mode. When connected to an Apex, the ports jacks can be configured however you like.

The default/stand-alone programming for the Neptune ATK is ok for many systems, but can be problematic for others and cannot be changed. If you have a GHL controller you’d be forced to use the ATK in stand alone mode and would be far better off either getting GHL sensors and programming your own code or using another ATO system.