Bioblocks and bottomed out nutrients

[Sploot]

Hello R2R,

Wanted to get a second opinion. I am currently dealing with a pretty bad case of dinos and bottomed-out nutrients in my 50g, my suspicions are that I might have too much biological filtration.

Currently have these maxspect bioblocks that treat up to 750 gallons, in addition to a little bit of live rock. I don't feed lightly by any means either.
https://www.maxspect.com/en/nano-tech-bio-media/614-nano-tech-biosphere-bioblock.html
I'm considering removing the bioblocks to let my nitrates and phosphates rise, but wanted to make sure it's the right call.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Pickle_soup]

Imo, I don't think so. Remember that nitrates are not exported out by the bacteria. Dinos are eating up the nitrates and phosphates. How old is your tank? You might need more bacteria to compete with dinos.

 

[Sploot]

Tank just passed the 2 month mark. Gotcha, so the best course of action might be to add more bacteria then. Hadn't considered that

 

[Pickle_soup]

Tank just passed the 2 month mark. Gotcha, so the best course of action might be to add more bacteria then. Hadn't considered that

Two months is really nothing. Do you have any fish in the tank?

 

[Sploot]

Tank is a new frag tank that has 6 fish in it right now, all transfers from a smaller tank. Never had to deal with these issues in my display tank, so uncharted territory for me still.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Imo, I don't think so. Remember that nitrates are not exported out by the bacteria. Dinos are eating up the nitrates and phosphates. How old is your tank? You might need more bacteria to compete with dinos.

Anaerobic bacteria convert nitrate to nitrogen...

 

[Pickle_soup]

Anaerobic bacteria convert nitrate to nitrogen...

You won't find anaerobic bacteria in bio blocks. Or very little. It's why DSB were a thing

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You won't find anaerobic bacteria in bio blocks. Or very little. It's why DSB were a thing

I guess I'm not familiar with the type of bio bricks you're referring to. The biomedia I use is designed to promote both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria.

 

[Spare time]

You won't find anaerobic bacteria in bio blocks. Or very little. It's why DSB were a thing

You can make them anaerobic easily.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You won't find anaerobic bacteria in bio blocks. Or very little. It's why DSB were a thing

I think media like bio bricks, matrix, etc were designed to replace a dsb

 

[Pickle_soup]

I guess I'm not familiar with the type of bio bricks you're referring to. The biomedia I use is designed to promote anaerobic bacteria.

Sure it is, and that's why you don't have to ever control nitrates in your tank...it made water changes a thing of the past.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Sure it is, and that's why you don't have to ever control nitrates in your tank...it made water changes a thing of the past.

It helps, but is not the be all end all for removing nitrate, and water changes do a lot more than just reduce nitrates

 

[Pickle_soup]

I think media like bio bricks, matrix, etc were designed to replace a dsb

I have used matrix in my tank for over a decade now. Sure it helps, but oxygen in the water gets in. The smallest exposure to oxygen interferes with the respiration of the bacteria.

 

[Pickle_soup]

It helps, but is not the be all end all for removing nitrate, and water changes do a lot more than just reduce nitrates

Exactly, it helps, so there is no such thing as too much anaerobic bacteria in our hobby.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Exactly, it helps, so there is no such thing as too much anaerobic bacteria in our hobby.

I have no idea how this relates to your assertion that

You won't find anaerobic bacteria in bio blocks. Or very little.

 

[Pickle_soup]

I have no idea how this relates to your assertion that

It's pretty straightforward. The amount of anaerobic bacteria in our filtration systems is minimal. That's why we have a continuous build up of nitrates in our tanks. So yes, media like matrix that is very porous the innermost part of each "pebble," there is some anaerobic respiration taking place. Do not think that the entire "pebble" allows for anaerobic bacteria to break down the nitrates. Just like in the blocks that you use, only a tiny percentage of that block allows for anaerobic respiration. I have 2 inches of sand, over 100 lbs of live rock, an entire reactor of matrix, and over 24 bio-blocks in my system, yet I produce excess nitrates, and the reason for that is that oxygen in the water in our systems interferes with anaerobic bacteria. You're being naive if you think that the "specially designed bio-blocks" lend themselves to necessary denitrification. Ideally, as in nature, all nitrates pretty much would be converted to nitrogen eventually. In the oceans, nitrate levels are somewhere between 0-.14 ppm under normal conditions.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

It's pretty straightforward. The amount of anaerobic bacteria in our filtration systems is minimal. That's why we have a continuous build up of nitrates in our tanks. So yes, media like matrix that is very porous the innermost part of each "pebble," there is some anaerobic respiration taking place. Do not think that the entire "pebble" allows for anaerobic bacteria to break down the nitrates. Just like in the blocks that you use, only a tiny percentage of that block allows for anaerobic respiration. I have 2 inches of sand, over 100 lbs of live rock, an entire reactor of matrix, and over 24 bio-blocks in my system, yet I produce excess nitrates, and the reason for that is that oxygen in the water in our systems interferes with anaerobic bacteria. You're being naive if you think that the "specially designed bio-blocks" lend themselves to necessary denitrification.

No need for insults.
I was just trying to follow your logic.

 

[Pickle_soup]

No need for insults.
I was just trying to follow your logic.

I am not trying to insult you at all. I am sorry if it came across this way. Not my intention at all. If you're referring to the naive part, we all are in some aspect of that hobby or another, I am just as guilty. I do not mean it as an insult, as I see it more like wishful thinking. My naive thing, I keep adding "semi-aggressive" fish thinking I can keep getting away with it.

 

[Spare time]

It's pretty straightforward. The amount of anaerobic bacteria in our filtration systems is minimal. That's why we have a continuous build up of nitrates in our tanks. So yes, media like matrix that is very porous the innermost part of each "pebble," there is some anaerobic respiration taking place. Do not think that the entire "pebble" allows for anaerobic bacteria to break down the nitrates. Just like in the blocks that you use, only a tiny percentage of that block allows for anaerobic respiration. I have 2 inches of sand, over 100 lbs of live rock, an entire reactor of matrix, and over 24 bio-blocks in my system, yet I produce excess nitrates, and the reason for that is that oxygen in the water in our systems interferes with anaerobic bacteria. You're being naive if you think that the "specially designed bio-blocks" lend themselves to necessary denitrification. Ideally, as in nature, all nitrates pretty much would be converted to nitrogen eventually. In the oceans, nitrate levels are somewhere between 0-.14 ppm under normal conditions.

You aren't really providing evidence for your claim. It could simply be that our tanks produce nitrate faster than anaerobes can remove it, or that they are limited by something like carbon. The very center of thick biobricks probably gets very little flow, thus it is likely to think anaerobes grow there. Having nitrates present doesn't mean there are not anaerobes. That is like saying that you can't have algae if you have phosphate or nitrate because algae removes them. The last sentence also doesn't really have much to do with nitrate in our tanks because the ocean's nitrogen scavenging is much more fierce than in our tanks because reef tanks often have high nitrate relative to the ocean.

Again, you having nitrates isn't proof of a lack of anaerobes. Now if you did a controlled study on it, sure then you could start to draw conclusions, but as of now all we can say is that there is environments in a reef tank where anaerobs could hypothetically grow, but that they may be limited by something (space, carbon, predation, etc.) to where they can't populate enough to remove all nitrate.

 

[Pickle_soup]

You aren't really providing evidence for your claim. It could simply be that our tanks produce nitrate faster than anaerobes can remove it, or that they are limited by something like carbon. The very center of thick biobricks probably gets very little flow, thus it is likely to think anaerobes grow there. Having nitrates present doesn't mean there are not anaerobes. That is like saying that you can't have algae if you have phosphate or nitrate because algae removes them. The last sentence also doesn't really have much to do with nitrate in our tanks because the ocean's nitrogen scavenging is much more fierce than in our tanks because reef tanks often have high nitrate relative to the ocean.

Again, you having nitrates isn't proof of a lack of anaerobes. Now if you did a controlled study on it, sure then you could start to draw conclusions, but as of now all we can say is that there is environments in a reef tank where anaerobs could hypothetically grow, but that they may be limited by something (space, carbon, predation, etc.) to where they can't populate enough to remove all nitrate.

" It could simply be that our tanks produce nitrate faster than anaerobes can remove it"---Why do you think that might be? Could it be that there is not enough anaerobic bacteria? Why do we not have ammonia and nitrite build up in our tanks? Is it because it is a lot easier to establish those bacteria colonies because oxygen does not impact their respiration? I am not sure why you are so stubborn about this. It's pretty clear that we do not have the environment in our tanks to effectively deal with nitrates. If the conditions were ideal we would have 1-1-1 ratio when it comes to ammonia/ammonium, nitrites, and nitrates. Even with carbon dosing, you won't completely eliminate nitrates because there are just not enough anaerobic bacteria in the system. It is possible to replicate those conditions, but you would have to have a massive filtration system designed to completely suffocate part of the water from oxygen.