Bioblocks and bottomed out nutrients

[Pickle_soup]

And don't forget to put my comments into the proper context of this original post.

 

[Pickle_soup]

@Aqua Man Feel free to contribute

 

[Subsea]

It's pretty straightforward. The amount of anaerobic bacteria in our filtration systems is minimal. That's why we have a continuous build up of nitrates in our tanks. So yes, media like matrix that is very porous the innermost part of each "pebble," there is some anaerobic respiration taking place. Do not think that the entire "pebble" allows for anaerobic bacteria to break down the nitrates. Just like in the blocks that you use, only a tiny percentage of that block allows for anaerobic respiration. I have 2 inches of sand, over 100 lbs of live rock, an entire reactor of matrix, and over 24 bio-blocks in my system, yet I produce excess nitrates, and the reason for that is that oxygen in the water in our systems interferes with anaerobic bacteria. You're being naive if you think that the "specially designed bio-blocks" lend themselves to necessary denitrification. Ideally, as in nature, all nitrates pretty much would be converted to nitrogen eventually. In the oceans, nitrate levels are somewhere between 0-.14 ppm under normal conditions.

In Reef Aquarium Volume 3, Julian Sprung discusses how arobic & anarobic chemistry happen in close proximity of each other (coupled).

@Pickle_soup

You might have a continuous buildup of NO4 but that is not the case in this 25 year set up or this 2 year set up.

 

[Pickle_soup]

In Reef Aquarium Volume 3, Julian Sprung discusses how arobic & anarobic chemistry happen in close proximity of each other (coupled).

@Pickle_soup

You might have a continuous buildup of NO4 but that is not the case in this 25 year set up or this 2 year set up.

You have DSB in both tanks. I am not surprised. You're an old schooler!

 

[Aqua Man]

I'm considering removing the bioblocks to let my nitrates and phosphates rise, but wanted to make sure it's the right call.

Removing the bricks might effect your nitrate lv or might not. IMO bio bricks do nothing for phosphate.
Were the bricks “seasoned “ in your display? IMO it will not hurt anything to remove them.
Everything in the tank has a bio film on it by now. So ammonia lv should be ok and good for coral anyway!!

Tank is a new frag tank that has 6 fish in it right now, all transfers from a smaller tank. Never had to deal with these issues in my display tank, so uncharted territory for me still.

Do you have coral in the tank yet? Either way, IMO just let nature take its course and let the Dino burn themselves out. 2 months is very new.

 

[Pickle_soup]

You have DSB in both tanks. I am not surprised.

Removing the bricks might effect your nitrate lv or might not. IMO bio bricks do nothing for phosphate.
Were the bricks “seasoned “ in your display? IMO it will not hurt anything to remove them.
Everything in the tank has a bio film on it by now. So ammonia lv should be ok and good for coral anyway!!

Do you have coral in the tank yet? Either way, IMO just let nature take its course and let the Dino burn themselves out. 2 months is very new.

I never had an issue with dino until recently. Do they really burn themselves out?

 

[Dburr1014]

I stopped dosing nitrate in April. I upped my feedings 2 fold. I do have a small refuge, about 4 gallons to my 100 gallon system.
We must remember coral take up nitrate, bacteria take up phosphate and then the coral take up the bacteria.

If anyone thinks every tank is the same well, it's not.

 

[Dburr1014]

I never had an issue with dino until recently. Do they really burn themselves out?

No, that is not true.
Dino have a way of feeding themselves also. They are pretty good at it.

 

[Subsea]

You have DSB in both tanks. I am not surprised. You're an old schooler!

I have no deep sand beds. I do operate 1”-2” aroggonite sandbeds with reverse flow undergravel filter

 

[Subsea]

" It could simply be that our tanks produce nitrate faster than anaerobes can remove it"---Why do you think that might be? Could it be that there is not enough anaerobic bacteria? “

@Pickle_soup
Let’s park here and talk about anaerobic & aerobic bacteria. Aerobic bacteria double in density every 20 minutes. Anarobic bacteria take 6 hours to double in density, because of the energy required to break the bond of NO4 molecule to consume oxygen and then allow a free N2 molecule to escape as nutrient export.

 

[Pickle_soup]

@Pickle_soup
Let’s park here and talk about anaerobic & aerobic bacteria. Aerobic bacteria double in density every 20 minutes. Anarobic bacteria take 6 hours to double in density, because of the energy required to break the bond of NO4 molecule to consume oxygen and then allow a free N2 molecule to escape as nutrient export.

I am not following...

 

[Subsea]

I never had an issue with dino until recently. Do they really burn themselves out?

Dinos are very opportunistic. They will not burn out.

Dinoflagellate

ocean.si.edu

“Dinoflagellates are an important group of phytoplankton that produce oxygen in marine and freshwater. Some species form symbiotic relationships with larger animals, including corals (zooxanthellae), jellyfish, sea anemones, nudibranchs and others. Sometimes dinoflagellates grow out of control, to more than a million cells per milliliter, causing an algae bloom or red tide. Because some dinoflagellates produce toxins, when there are too many in the water, they can creep up the food chain, killing animals and making people sick. Learn more about red tides.”

 

[John K]

It's pretty straightforward. The amount of anaerobic bacteria in our filtration systems is minimal. That's why we have a continuous build up of nitrates in our tanks. So yes, media like matrix that is very porous the innermost part of each "pebble," there is some anaerobic respiration taking place. Do not think that the entire "pebble" allows for anaerobic bacteria to break down the nitrates. Just like in the blocks that you use, only a tiny percentage of that block allows for anaerobic respiration. I have 2 inches of sand, over 100 lbs of live rock, an entire reactor of matrix, and over 24 bio-blocks in my system, yet I produce excess nitrates, and the reason for that is that oxygen in the water in our systems interferes with anaerobic bacteria. You're being naive if you think that the "specially designed bio-blocks" lend themselves to necessary denitrification. Ideally, as in nature, all nitrates pretty much would be converted to nitrogen eventually. In the oceans, nitrate levels are somewhere between 0-.14 ppm under normal conditions.

“An entire reactor of Matrix”. Are you aware that running a boi media like this in a media reactor will specifically encourage aerobic bacteria AND discourage anaerobic (because of the forced flow)? This would likely explain the ineffectiveness you are seeing.

 

[Pickle_soup]

“An entire reactor of Matrix”. Are you aware that running a boi media like this in a media reactor will specifically encourage aerobic bacteria AND discourage anaerobic (because of the forced flow)? This would likely explain the ineffectiveness you are seeing.

What's the best way to use it then? Just in a bag at the bottom of the sump?

 

[Aqua Man]

never had an issue with dino until recently. Do they really burn themselves out?

No, that is not true.
Dino have a way of feeding themselves also. They are pretty good at it.

Poor choice of words on my end. Dino can be outcompeted by other organisms is what I meant. Some Dino are more stubborn than others.

 

[Aqua Man]

What's the best way to use it then? Just in a bag at the bottom of the sump?

Yes. Mesh bag in the corner, out of direct flow.

 

[Subsea]

@Pickle_soup
You said,
“The smallest exposure to oxygen interferes with the respiration of the bacteria.“

Julian Sprung said nitrification and denitrification happen in close proximity of each other: coupled to each other.

The Reef Aquarium, Vol. 3: Science, Art, and Technology Hardcover – November 25, 2005​

by Julian Sprung (Author), J. Charles Delbeek (Author

“The Reef Aquarium Volume Three: Science, Art, and Technology Reefkeeping science involves the interplay of biology, chemistry, and physics. However, a reef aquarium is not simply a product of scientific knowledge. The application of engineering and its product technology, makes it possible to duplicate the specific biological, chemical, and physical requirements of a coral reef in a closed system.”


@Pickle_soup
What are you not following about this?

“Let’s park here and talk about anaerobic & aerobic bacteria. Aerobic bacteria double in density every 20 minutes. Anarobic bacteria take 6 hours to double in density, because of the energy required to break the bond of NO4 molecule to consume oxygen and then allow a free N2 molecule to escape as nutrient export.”

 

[Pickle_soup]

Yes. Mesh bag in the corner, out of direct flow.

I'll try it. Even better. I can get a scrubber in the place of the reactor. Maybe. Eventually. Who wants to buy a reactor?

 

[Subsea]

Hello R2R,

Wanted to get a second opinion. I am currently dealing with a pretty bad case of dinos and bottomed-out nutrients in my 50g, my suspicions are that I might have too much biological filtration.

Currently have these maxspect bioblocks that treat up to 750 gallons, in addition to a little bit of live rock. I don't feed lightly by any means either.

Nano-Tech Biosphere/Bioblock - Maxspect

maxspect

www.maxspect.com

I'm considering removing the bioblocks to let my nitrates and phosphates rise, but wanted to make sure it's the right call.

Thanks in advance!

Thought you might like to see an active consumer of dinoflagellates

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I never had an issue with dino until recently. Do they really burn themselves out?

Mine did