Black spots on Spotted Puffer

[jdbot]

Hey all. We got a Hawaiian spotted puffer which was added to a newly setup QT 4 days ago (1.023 gravity, HOB filter, powerhead and air stone available but not always used). We've gone the observation route first so no treatment has been given. We just noticed a few black spots on the puffer (and some discoloration on various areas of the skin). Never had a puffer so I'm less familiar with what is normal. Is this disease (e.g., turbellarians)? Spots have stayed in the same location for the past 3 days or so.

1. if disease, what would be a recommended treatment for a puffer? I have heard they don't tolerate copper very well. Is hyposalinity (1.009 gravity) a better approach? If so, for how long?
2. QT is shared with a Sunburst Anthias, so if it is disease, I assume the Anthias has been exposed. Would treatment be the same for both or do I need to separate them and treat differently?
3. Both fish are eating well with no other apparent symptoms.

Thanks for your help!

-JD

 

[Intense37754]

If those are black spots it could be black ich and can dose general cure six days apart, that will also help take care of any uronema the Anthias might be carrying and I have quarantined puffers including a Toby with 2.0 copper power

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey all. We got a Hawaiian spotted puffer which was added to a newly setup QT 4 days ago (1.023 gravity, HOB filter, powerhead and air stone available but not always used). We've gone the observation route first so no treatment has been given. We just noticed a few black spots on the puffer (and some discoloration on various areas of the skin). Never had a puffer so I'm less familiar with what is normal. Is this disease (e.g., turbellarians)? Spots have stayed in the same location for the past 3 days or so.

1. if disease, what would be a recommended treatment for a puffer? I have heard they don't tolerate copper very well. Is hyposalinity (1.009 gravity) a better approach? If so, for how long?
2. QT is shared with a Sunburst Anthias, so if it is disease, I assume the Anthias has been exposed. Would treatment be the same for both or do I need to separate them and treat differently?
3. Both fish are eating well with no other apparent symptoms.

Thanks for your help!

-JD

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Those spots look too large and diffuse to be turbellarians, but they do look like some skin reaction to a parasite or irritation.

I've used coppersafe on tobies with no issues. Hyposalinity is an option, but I've had issues using that on deepwater anthias, so that is a risk.

Jay

 

[jdbot]

Thank you, @Intense37754 and @Jay Hemdal for the fast responses! Awesome to have joined Reef2Reef and have access to all this experience and knowledge.

There seems to be a minor reduction in the size/saliency of the dark spots (but still very much there) and discoloration still prevalent. I got Coppersafe (and Copper Power), as I only had Cupramine, and will start treatment shortly. I'm waiting on a Hanna checker to be safe(r) with measurement and will see how it goes. Thanks again!

 

[jdbot]

Hi all, a quick update on this thread and on current developments. A Helfrichi Firefish, which was sourced and delivered much earlier than anticipated, was added to this QT. QT holds 3 fish: Sunburst Anthias, Helfrichi, and the Toby.

While waiting on the Hanna checker to start on copper treatment, the Anthias showed stringy white poop, which made me think of internal parasites. Given the puffer may also have had parasites, I started a course of General Cure (in the tank) with increased aeration.

Dosed GC 3x at 72 hour intervals (last one 3 days ago). Black spots on puffer started to diminish by the second dose of GC. Anthias poop back to normal. 3 days ago new black spots appeared on back side of puffer for which I started the 3rd dose of GC (also aiming to be close to the window for egg hatchings, in case of flukes).

Finally got the Hanna checker, but held off from starting copper as all fish seemed to be doing ok at the time (except for new black spots) and last GC treatment would end shortly.

Last night the puffer looked pale and started to swim as if it wanted to get out of the QT desperately. It was also eating comparatively less. Thinking of irritation due to ammonia creep because of the praziquantel (ammonia closer to 0.05ppm), I did a ~40% WC, added carbon filter (to remove any remaining GC), and also added a dose of Seachem's StressGuard. Puffer regained its color by this morning and looked ok.

This afternoon, however, the toby looked pale again and it's a bit lethargic. It did not eat much in the last couple of days (looks thinner). The Helfrichi also started flashing (often, more recurrent after feeding), and yawning occasionally. It looks thin as well. The Anthias seems ok, overall.

I would have expected the praziquantel in GC to do the trick by now, assuming symptoms still seem consistent with flukes or other parasites. Would you dose once again or change to a different treatment (e.g., start copper)?

Thanks!

-JD

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Confirming: The puffer is pale, breathing fast and has cloudy fins. The anthias looks ok and the firefish is showing signs of gill flukes or some irritation in the water.

I think you set things up for flukes pretty well - the timing on the GC is what the label says, to do, but they are wrong for treating egglaying flukes - then it needs to be dosed on about an 8 day interval. Still, even if you didn't break the life cycle of an egg laying species, the fish should have improved and then gotten worse again like a week to 2 weeks later....

Four ways I see to go here, with no clear choice: 1) Dose GC a third time. 2) work on possible water quality issues - water changes, better filtration. 3) dose with an antibiotic. 4) Presume protozoan issues and dose with copper.

Jay

 

[jdbot]

Thanks very much, Jay!

The behavior you describe (fish improving and then getting worse again) fits the situation well.

I am doing 1) and 2). Dosed praziquantel a 4th time and once it breaks down (I understand 24-48 hours would be enough), I'll be focusing on water quality again.

For 3) are there any antibiotics that would make better sense to try? I have most of Seachem's (metroplex, Kanaplex, neoplex, etc.). Finally, would there be a threshold of time, or change in symptoms, that would make you switch to a protozoan hypothesis instead?

Thanks again!

-JD

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks very much, Jay!

The behavior you describe (fish improving and then getting worse again) fits the situation well.

I am doing 1) and 2). Dosed praziquantel a 4th time and once it breaks down (I understand 24-48 hours would be enough), I'll be focusing on water quality again.

For 3) are there any antibiotics that would make better sense to try? I have most of Seachem's (metroplex, Kanaplex, neoplex, etc.). Finally, would there be a threshold of time, or change in symptoms, that would make you switch to a protozoan hypothesis instead?

Thanks again!

-JD

I would opt to try Kanaplex. I don't think mixing antibiotics is a good idea.

Tough to say what would prompt moving to a protozoan cause - rapid breathing and spots would be key.

Jay

 

[jdbot]

Great. Thanks, Jay. Really appreciate your input!