Bloated dwarf angel and quarantine

[crazyfishmom]

Hello all,

I have a group of fish currently in hyposalinity and they’ve all been doing well. A Japanese swallowtail angel has become bloated and I’m thinking internal parasites. Does not want to eat today. Can I treat with metro while in hypo?

Any potential recommendations/thoughts welcome.

Please help if you can.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello all,

I have a group of fish currently in hyposalinity and they’ve all been doing well. A Japanese swallowtail angel has become bloated and I’m thinking internal parasites. Does not want to eat today. Can I treat with metro while in hypo?

Any potential recommendations/thoughts welcome.

Please help if you can.

Can also be constipation or injury
Can you provides pics under white light intensity of both sides of fish please?

 

[crazyfishmom]

Can also be constipation or injury
Can you provides pics under white light intensity of both sides of fish please?

Here are a few shots.

I also noticed that when she’s still (not moving fins), her body starts to go sideways and then she immediately rights herself back up to normal. Not sure that means anything just figured I’d mention it. I don’t see any injury and her tank mates are all model citizens.

Thank you for the response.

 

[Idech]

I just saw a video on Youtube yesterday about swallowtail angels (I’m expecting one next week) and they explained that bloating happens sometimes to these fish but they are able to burp and get rid of it.

They say to leave the fish alone and it will be fine.

I’ll try to find the video for you,

 

[crazyfishmom]

I just saw a video on Youtube yesterday about swallowtail angels (I’m expecting one next week) and they explained that bloating happens sometimes to these fish but they are able to burp and get rid of it.

They say to leave the fish alone and it will be fine.

I’ll try to find the video for you,

I had the white and yellow type of swallowtail in the past and they did this. It was very funny to watch. She would go up to the top of the tank and swallow air and then you’d watch her struggle for a little while and then she’d be fine. This looks a little different but could be! I definitely was not thinking about that.

 

[Idech]

She would go up to the top of the tank and swallow air and then you’d watch her struggle for a little while and then she’d be fine.

That’s exactly what they explain here (about 3:50)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Here are a few shots.

I also noticed that when she’s still (not moving fins), her body starts to go sideways and then she immediately rights herself back up to normal. Not sure that means anything just figured I’d mention it. I don’t see any injury and her tank mates are all model citizens.

Thank you for the response.

Does appear to be constipated and I don’t believe rectal prolapse is yet an issue
Often feeding brine shrimp serves as a laxative which you can take as a first step

 

[crazyfishmom]

Does appear to be constipated and I don’t believe rectal prolapse is yet an issue
Often feeding brine shrimp serves as a laxative which you can take as a first step

Will try to feed brine shrimp. Thank you. She hasn’t wanted to eat today but I’ll try again.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here are a few shots.

I also noticed that when she’s still (not moving fins), her body starts to go sideways and then she immediately rights herself back up to normal. Not sure that means anything just figured I’d mention it. I don’t see any injury and her tank mates are all model citizens.

Thank you for the response.

See how the eyes are also bulging? The body is swollen all over, not just in the abdominal area. This is due to fluid build up called ascites. It isn't from an parasite or constipation, or swallowing air, but rather, from either kidney or liver failure.

I see this a lot in Genicanthus angels. IMO it is not treatable....sorry.

Jay

 

[Idech]

See how the eyes are also bulging? The body is swollen all over, not just in the abdominal area. This is due to fluid build up called ascites. It isn't from an parasite or constipation, or swallowing air, but rather, from either kidney or liver failure.

I see this a lot in Genicanthus angels. IMO it is not treatable....sorry.

Jay

Is this preventable and how ?

 

[crazyfishmom]

See how the eyes are also bulging? The body is swollen all over, not just in the abdominal area. This is due to fluid build up called ascites. It isn't from an parasite or constipation, or swallowing air, but rather, from either kidney or liver failure.

I see this a lot in Genicanthus angels. IMO it is not treatable....sorry.

Jay

Thanks for the response. She’s definitely taken a turn for the worse in the past few hours. Makes sense that ascites is possible in fish just never would’ve guessed it; seen it on lots of lab mice. I don’t want her to suffer any more so I am going to euthanize. Sucks.

 

[Idech]

Thanks for the response. She’s definitely taken a turn for the worse in the past few hours. Makes sense that ascites is possible in fish just never would’ve guessed it; seen it on lots of lab mice. I don’t want her to suffer any more so I am going to euthanize. Sucks.

I’m sorry @crazyfishmom. It’s always hard to lose a fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is this preventable and how ?

Typically not. It can stem from bacterial infection of the kidneys, but those are difficult to treat, and then, you won’t even know the fish has an infection until the ascites develops.
Some people feel that needling these fish to decompress them after collection can lead to this in Genicanthus angels, but IDK.

Jay

 

[Idech]

Some people feel that needling these fish to decompress them after collection can lead to this in Genicanthus angels, but IDK

Oh my, needling where, in the lungs ? Is this needed for all angels and why ? This is cruel, isn’t it ? :-(

 

[crazyfishmom]

Oh my, needling where, in the lungs ? Is this needed for all angels and why ? This is cruel, isn’t it ? :-(

They decompress the swim bladder. I don’t know if they do it to all angels but the genicanthus angels tend to come from deeper water hence the need for it. If not done the swim bladder expands and compresses all the other organs. It really sounds worse than it is.

 

[crazyfishmom]

I’m sorry @crazyfishmom. It’s always hard to lose a fish.

Thank you. She was actually gone by the time I went to try to find her. There’s just so many things that can go wrong. I’ll wait a while before I try for another one of these guys. They’re pretty awesome.

 

[Idech]

Thank you. She was actually gone by the time I went to try to find her. There’s just so many things that can go wrong. I’ll wait a while before I try for another one of these guys. They’re pretty awesome.

I’m expecting mine next week. I hope all goes well. Had you had yours for a long time ?

 

[crazyfishmom]

I’m expecting mine next week. I hope all goes well. Had you had yours for a long time ?

I had her for a little over a week; just started hyposalinity quarantine.

I had another one a while ago. She was the best eater in the tank and had an awesome personality. Kind of shy but made friends with my fox face and would eat nori off the clip with him. I lost most of the fish from that tank to ich unfortunately which is the reason I quarantine religiously now.

They are really awesome fish and I don’t regret getting them at all. Highly recommend them.

Crossing my fingers for you that all goes well. You’re going to love your new angel!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Oh my, needling where, in the lungs ? Is this needed for all angels and why ? This is cruel, isn’t it ? :-(

They needle the swim bladder. Below a capture depth of about 35 to 45 feet, bringing fish to the surface too fast causes the swim bladder to expand and possibly pop. Best thing to do is bring the fish up slowly, over hours. Many collectors speed the process up by needling the swim bladder to bleed off the excess gas. Genicanthus angels seem prone to getting infections from this process.

 

[crazyfishmom]

They needle the swim bladder. Below a capture depth of about 35 to 45 feet, bringing fish to the surface too fast causes the swim bladder to expand and possibly pop. Best thing to do is bring the fish up slowly, over hours. Many collectors speed the process up by needling the swim bladder to bleed off the excess gas. Genicanthus angels seem prone to getting infections from this process.

I was thinking: would it be reasonable to think that if an infection is to blame for the kidney and or liver failure that treatment with general cure early in the quarantine process might help prevent it? I know it’s kind of asking what came first whether the chicken or the egg but I’m wondering if adding general cure at the beginning with hyposalinity might help. Is this possible? Adding general cure at the same time as fish are in hypo?

Thanks Jay for all the information you provide on a regular basis. I am learning a lot from you and this will hopefully translate into being a better fish parent.