Blue/Green Chromis - first food?

[Gregg37]

I have a pair of Blue/Green chromis that had laid eggs a few times previous, but always on the glass or the grid over the overflow. Last evening they both looked mottled in coloration so I was thinking they would be laying. This morning I caught them laying on my "flipper" algae magnet that I left in the tank the last few days. So, I can remove the eggs and try to raise some!

After doing some research, both here on R2R and here I'm not sure what an appropriate first food would be. I was thinking rotifers, but the linked article indicates they used a species of copepods (Oithona colcarva) that I do not have access to. I currently culture Tigriopis and "arcti pods". The tigriopis I'm sure are to large, but would the other smaller ones be a possibility?

What about trying to 'co-culture' using phyto as well as the small pods? Anyone have any experience at home as opposed to in a 'real' lab? Wondering how soon I could try to switch to newly hatched baby brine.

 

[sabeypets]

"Unlike most damselfish, green chromis larvae are underdeveloped at hatching and lack pigmented eyes, a functional mouth and gut. At slightly more than 2 mm total length, the larvae subsist on protein and lipid rich yolk reserves that fuel development in the upper water column. Two days after hatching, the larvae are ready to feed, and must be supplied with tiny copepod nauplii to survive. Chromis larvae, in our experience, are highly selective in choosing their zooplankton prey. We offered cultured Oithona colcarva nauplii at a density of about 3/mL. The first feeding stage of marine fish larvae is typically characterized as the stage prone to the highest levels of mortality. We experienced little early mortality since the larvae fed aggressively on the cultured Oithona. Bottlenecks to culture developed after day 10 and 15 when the larvae required sequentially larger copepod prey. Flexion occurred near day 15, which was accompanied by our highest mortality rates. At this stage of development larvae undergo dramatic changes in morphology and reorganization of the gut. We suspect that mortality here is attributed to insufficient nutrition through early development.

Metamorphosis is slow from here and by day 35 the tiny juveniles measuring 10-12mm become more bottom oriented and display the schooling behavior so common to the species. The characteristic blue-green color is evident by day 40. Our first successful run resulted in just over two dozen juveniles. We are currently working hard to expand copepod production to supply copepodites and larger copepods as the larvae grow." Rising Tide. I assume you found this information from Rising Tide.

They will need a Pelagic copepod, Parvocalanus crassirostris nauplii may be good to start with and available in the US. The 2 you raise aren't Pelagic. You will need a 100 and 40 micron mesh sieves.

Co-culture may defiantly be an option but sometimes presents its own set of pros and cons.

Baby Brine shrimp have a poor nutritional profile for most saltwater larvae and are used sparingly or avoided.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a pair of Blue/Green chromis that had laid eggs a few times previous, but always on the glass or the grid over the overflow. Last evening they both looked mottled in coloration so I was thinking they would be laying. This morning I caught them laying on my "flipper" algae magnet that I left in the tank the last few days. So, I can remove the eggs and try to raise some!

After doing some research, both here on R2R and here I'm not sure what an appropriate first food would be. I was thinking rotifers, but the linked article indicates they used a species of copepods (Oithona colcarva) that I do not have access to. I currently culture Tigriopis and "arcti pods". The tigriopis I'm sure are to large, but would the other smaller ones be a possibility?

What about trying to 'co-culture' using phyto as well as the small pods? Anyone have any experience at home as opposed to in a 'real' lab? Wondering how soon I could try to switch to newly hatched baby brine.

Mysis pellets, mysis shrimp, spirulina brine shrimp and LRS nano frenzy all ideal

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Anyone have any experience at home as opposed to in a 'real' lab?

You won't find anyone with experience with this species, as - to the best of my knowledge - it has only been confirmedly reared in captivity twice (once by Rising Tide, as you've found, and once, as mentioned in that article by Rising Tide, by Gopakumar et al.).

I was thinking rotifers, but the linked article indicates they used a species of copepods (Oithona colcarva) that I do not have access to. I currently culture Tigriopis and "arcti pods".

Neither rotifers nor those pods would work for these guys - Parvocalanus crassirostris is a good suggestion, but I'm doubtful that it will work (another member has been trying it on a closely related species - Chromis insolata - without success; see the thread linked below).

What about trying to 'co-culture' using phyto as well as the small pods?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this (I've seen this term used to mean a couple of very different things) - would you elaborate?

Has anyone successfully raised Sunshine Chromis from fry?

Hey all, So I have a breeding pair of sunshine chromis in my reef tank. They have laid 3 batches of eggs that I’ve seen so far, and by the third day, all the eggs are gone (I’m guessing the snails knock them off or my purple tang eats them). I managed to collect and hatch a handful from the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Gregg37]

By co culture I mean having a high concentration of phytoplankton and copepods in the same vessel as the chromis fry. This allows the phyto and (hopefully) the copepods to reproduce in the vessel,by 'feeding' on the 'waste' products of the fry, keeping the food levels high, and hopefully waste levels low(ish). This reduces the amount of water changes needed, and provides food for the larvae.

Back in the late 1990s I was working with L amboinensis and found that a large co-culture of phytoplankton, rotifers and baby brine shrimp allowed me to get the baby shrimp to day 18 before losing them. (Remember this was the 1990s and I had hardly anything on the internet to use as a resource - had only "The breeders registry" and their newsletter.) I tried various things but couldn't find the right food to get them past day 18. I worked at them for over two years, with weekly larvae catches. Then... grad school, and life in general got in the way, and one of my pair of brood stock died so I tore down all my cultures. I recently built a house and set up a Cade 1800, and I also have a plankton culture area under the basement stairs so I'm getting back into the hobby, finally.

 

[RSNJReef]

"Unlike most damselfish, green chromis larvae are underdeveloped at hatching and lack pigmented eyes, a functional mouth and gut. At slightly more than 2 mm total length, the larvae subsist on protein and lipid rich yolk reserves that fuel development in the upper water column. Two days after hatching, the larvae are ready to feed, and must be supplied with tiny copepod nauplii to survive. Chromis larvae, in our experience, are highly selective in choosing their zooplankton prey. We offered cultured Oithona colcarva nauplii at a density of about 3/mL. The first feeding stage of marine fish larvae is typically characterized as the stage prone to the highest levels of mortality. We experienced little early mortality since the larvae fed aggressively on the cultured Oithona. Bottlenecks to culture developed after day 10 and 15 when the larvae required sequentially larger copepod prey. Flexion occurred near day 15, which was accompanied by our highest mortality rates. At this stage of development larvae undergo dramatic changes in morphology and reorganization of the gut. We suspect that mortality here is attributed to insufficient nutrition through early development.

Metamorphosis is slow from here and by day 35 the tiny juveniles measuring 10-12mm become more bottom oriented and display the schooling behavior so common to the species. The characteristic blue-green color is evident by day 40. Our first successful run resulted in just over two dozen juveniles. We are currently working hard to expand copepod production to supply copepodites and larger copepods as the larvae grow." Rising Tide. I assume you found this information from Rising Tide.

They will need a Pelagic copepod, Parvocalanus crassirostris nauplii may be good to start with and available in the US. The 2 you raise aren't Pelagic. You will need a 100 and 40 micron mesh sieves.

Co-culture may defiantly be an option but sometimes presents its own set of pros and cons.

Baby Brine shrimp have a poor nutritional profile for most saltwater larvae and are used sparingly or avoided.

If you don’t make me asking, how did you get a hold of the oithona? I have been looking to start a culture of this but cannot find it anywhere.

 

[sabeypets]

If you don’t make me asking, how did you get a hold of the oithona? I have been looking to start a culture of this but cannot find it anywhere.

It was Rising Tide that had the culture 10 years ago. Try Algae Barn? They sell them.

 

[RSNJReef]

Great, thanks sabey, ISFTS had mentioned that to me n the past as well. Let me see what they say (fingers crossed).

 

[sabeypets]

Algea Barn sell them in their EcoPods. "Each 16 oz portion of EcoPods contains an ecologically balanced consortium of copepods including Tigriopus, Tisbe, Apocyclops and Oithona. All of our pods are 100% viable to reproduce in marine aquaria, including Oithona." Maybe they will sell a culture of just Oithona.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I have a pair of Blue/Green chromis that had laid eggs a few times previous, but always on the glass or the grid over the overflow. Last evening they both looked mottled in coloration so I was thinking they would be laying. This morning I caught them laying on my "flipper" algae magnet that I left in the tank the last few days. So, I can remove the eggs and try to raise some!

After doing some research, both here on R2R and here I'm not sure what an appropriate first food would be. I was thinking rotifers, but the linked article indicates they used a species of copepods (Oithona colcarva) that I do not have access to. I currently culture Tigriopis and "arcti pods". The tigriopis I'm sure are to large, but would the other smaller ones be a possibility?

What about trying to 'co-culture' using phyto as well as the small pods? Anyone have any experience at home as opposed to in a 'real' lab? Wondering how soon I could try to switch to newly hatched baby brine.

Very cool!

 

[Gregg37]

Update: I did remove the eggs, about 36 hours post hatch, and placed them in a large jar with an air stone. I placed the jar in my sump to maintain a constant temp.

The eggs hatched on the 5th night after laying. It looked like about 30-40ish were alive, with many eggs unhatched sitting at the bottom of the jar. They were absolutely TINY. I needed a magnifying lens just to see more than a dot moving around.

Unfortunately, only a dozen or so remained alive by the time I got home from work. I removed the live ones from the jar and placed them into a clean jar containing 50% water from my main display and 50% Nannocholoropsis and copepods, placing this jar in my plankton culture area (Closet under the basement steps). As of this morning, 4th post hatch, I do not see any larvae, only copepods.

After further research, it seems extremely unlikely I would have any success with this species, so I doubt I will remove any future eggs.

Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[RSNJReef]

The more people that keep trying to breed the species the better, as different people would typically try different things over time. Eventually one of us will find the right recipe.

At least you have a breeding pair which was quite a bit of the work to get to that point in the first place. Not a lot of people can say they are even at that stage, so good job getting to even where you are Gregg.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Out of curiosity (all of this could potentially help others try to breed these in the future):

What do you feed your fish and how often?

What is your lighting and what is your lighting schedule?
Any idea what range of PAR you have in the water column?

Can we see a pic of the tank?

 

[Gregg37]

This is a Cade 1800. There are currently 16 fish in the tank, including 10 Lyretail anthias, one clown tang a pair of yellow head sleeper gobies, a lagoon goby and the pair of chromis. The tank is 26 months old. I started with 5 chromis and the remaining two bullied the others to death.

I have an auto feeder that contains TDO Chromoboost and Formula 2 pellets that feeds twice per day, at 10:00 and 13:00. I also feed various frozen foods, usually "two cubes" per day between 5:00 and 5:30PM (After dinner). The frozen foods used are Brine Shrimp - Omega and Spirulina, Mega Marine, Mega Marine Algae, Rod's, Rod's Coral Blend.

The tank has two LED fixtures, both are Radion XR30 G5. "Sunrise" is 8:30AM, "Sunset" 8:30PM. LEDs are currently set at 78% intensity, ramping up and down. LEDs are suspended from the ceiling and are about 10" above the water surface. I do not know what my PAR is. Here is the most recent FTS I have (From March 2023). I have since replaced the Cade net lid with a custom one from "Top lids".

Let me know if you would like to know anything else that may be helpful.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

The only other thing I can think to ask the moment is if you can think of anything that might trigger the spawning - things like temp swings, water changes, etc.

Basically, is there anything abnormal going on with your tank that correlates with them spawning?

 

[Gregg37]

I do not know of anything that stimulates them to lay eggs. Temp is 78.0 - 78.8 My lights are scheduled / run via the Mobius app so n o drastic changes with the sun schedule. I don't have a rigid water change schedule, but I usually do a 6 gallon change every other Saturday, and a 24 or 30 gallon change every 6 weeks while I vacuum the sand a bit, and remove any detritus and/or small bits of hair algae t hat grow in some crevices. I noticed this group of eggs was being laid down when I was getting ready to do a 6 gallon change, but before I started it.

 

[Gregg37]

Not sure if anyone is still interested, but when I got home from work yesterday there was another batch of eggs. This time the eggs were laid around the magnet for my flipper magnifier, on the front glass. I manually siphoned out some GHA during a 12g water change on Sunday, and also manually removed some more GHA and raked the sand on Wednesday. Eggs appeared on Thursday, sometime after 6:00AM (When I left for work). No other changes to the tank recently. I am not going to try to capture any of this clucth, not even the ones that are on the magnet as i don't have any suitable first foods.