Boosting PH

[gentlefish]

You can try to test how much CO2 contributes to pH by offgassing it outside and retesting it. As for Randy’s receipt, prior to I was running pH of <8, sometimes down to 7.8. Now it’s 7.9-8.2.

 

[Reefinmike]

To add, even when my carx was offline, the most I was seeing was 8.1 pH. That is the reason for finding a way to boost without raising alk. I may be able to try the lye, but like the article said, it may just look like a saw tooth going up and down when the carx is running.

Lye actually doesn't add alkalinity; it removes a free Hydrogen ion from solution to create water-H2O. "Alkalinity" in the ocean is derived from atmospheric CO2. CO2 combines with a water molecule(H2O) to create H2CO3 or carbonic acid. Depending on the concentration of Hydrogen ions, the carbonic acid can disassociate into bicarbonate(HCO3) or even the more readily consumable carbonate(CO3).

If your pH is low, your free Hydrogen concentration is high. No if's, and's or but's about it. this article may help https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/alkalinity-stability-ph-stability-are-they-even-different.711768/

 

[Hersheyb]

I been messing around with the ph problem for the last year or so... I have even considered going back to 2-part but it's just not practical since my water volume is close to 500 gal. If your tank is 150 gal and below go back to 2part dosing, it's easier and no low ph problem. 2-part will do everything you are looking for.

Here's what I went through..
- Before the big tank upgrade I was doing 2-part dosing, everything was perfect, had ph of 8.1-8.3 stable alk/calc. Acros grew insanely.
- Tank upgrade 2-part just didn't make sense... so I switch to calx, ph drop to 7.6-7.9. Alk/calc was stable but my corals SPS just stopped growing.
- Figure it had to be my ph, so I added air bubble in my sump area to increase agitation and gas exchange but that didn't do anything...
- Tried venting the room, open windows, fans and even an outside airline for the skimmer.. ph went up to .1 didn't do much.. even got a co2 monitor and readings were fine.. 400 range, so it wasn't the surrounding air.
- Since the air around the room wasn't saturated by co2, I had to do something within the tank... started out with a Kalk stirrer. I had this setup at max capacity. I was topping off about 5-8 gallon of fw everyday, so I set my peristaltic pump to pump 5 gal of kalk into my system. Tuned down my carx. Ph went up to 7.9-8.1.
- Ph of 7.9-8.1 would be fine.. but since I'm on the path I'd figure I would give co2 scrubbing a try. When i first started with the co2 scrubber I was replacing the media weekly. ph went up to 8.1 - 8.3. Ran the co2 reactor for a few weeks before I decided to try the re circulation method. Media now last me around 17-19 days. Which worked out for me.
- Out of curiosity I turned off my carx for 1 day just to see what my ph would be like with all the new implements... my ph shot up 8.5 and it kept climbing.. I quickly turned off my skimmer to let my ph drop back down.. even without the co2 scrubber that day, my ph stay around the 8.4 during day time.

So if you don't want to go through all of this, 2 part dosing will solve your ph problems =)

 

[jda]

Make sure that your CaRx is not wasting co2 going down the line into the tank. A well-tuned CaRx will barely move the pH in a tank, if at all, but you have to make sure that co2 is being dissolved and not heading into the tank. This can happen at any pH and is more of an issue when using a dump/stop action of a co2 controller. Other than kalk, or a strong base, nothing can overcome directly co2 addition from a poorly tuned co2 reactor. Too many people watch that horrible YouTube video about how to tune your reactor and to throw away your instructions not knowing what they are getting into. If you have a good design CaRx and have it tuned to run 24/7 without any interruptions with a co2 controller, then you can get this thing to barely move your pH, if at all. Search around for some calcium reactor posts where I helped people if you don't believe me.

I melt a whole bag of arm or reborn (the 50 pounder) ever 6-7 months and my tank pH is always around 8.05 to 8.30 and can be manipulated by opening and closing windows, which means that there is not any extra co2 in the tank from the reactor.

 

[PhantomHalo]

Lye actually doesn't add alkalinity; it removes a free Hydrogen ion from solution to create water-H2O. "Alkalinity" in the ocean is derived from atmospheric CO2. CO2 combines with a water molecule(H2O) to create H2CO3 or carbonic acid. Depending on the concentration of Hydrogen ions, the carbonic acid can disassociate into bicarbonate(HCO3) or even the more readily consumable carbonate(CO3).

If your pH is low, your free Hydrogen concentration is high. No if's, and's or but's about it. this article may help https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/alkalinity-stability-ph-stability-are-they-even-different.711768/

Sorry, I am not a chemist and have a rough time understanding this stuff. Lol To break it down elementary school style, if I add lye, I should see my pH increase? My alk should stay the same? I read through that thread over the past hour and a half and have a little better understanding, but still way over my head. Lol

I been messing around with the ph problem for the last year or so... I have even considered going back to 2-part but it's just not practical since my water volume is close to 500 gal. If your tank is 150 gal and below go back to 2part dosing, it's easier and no low ph problem. 2-part will do everything you are looking for.

Here's what I went through..
- Before the big tank upgrade I was doing 2-part dosing, everything was perfect, had ph of 8.1-8.3 stable alk/calc. Acros grew insanely.
- Tank upgrade 2-part just didn't make sense... so I switch to calx, ph drop to 7.6-7.9. Alk/calc was stable but my corals SPS just stopped growing.
- Figure it had to be my ph, so I added air bubble in my sump area to increase agitation and gas exchange but that didn't do anything...
- Tried venting the room, open windows, fans and even an outside airline for the skimmer.. ph went up to .1 didn't do much.. even got a co2 monitor and readings were fine.. 400 range, so it wasn't the surrounding air.
- Since the air around the room wasn't saturated by co2, I had to do something within the tank... started out with a Kalk stirrer. I had this setup at max capacity. I was topping off about 5-8 gallon of fw everyday, so I set my peristaltic pump to pump 5 gal of kalk into my system. Tuned down my carx. Ph went up to 7.9-8.1.
- Ph of 7.9-8.1 would be fine.. but since I'm on the path I'd figure I would give co2 scrubbing a try. When i first started with the co2 scrubber I was replacing the media weekly. ph went up to 8.1 - 8.3. Ran the co2 reactor for a few weeks before I decided to try the re circulation method. Media now last me around 17-19 days. Which worked out for me.
- Out of curiosity I turned off my carx for 1 day just to see what my ph would be like with all the new implements... my ph shot up 8.5 and it kept climbing.. I quickly turned off my skimmer to let my ph drop back down.. even without the co2 scrubber that day, my ph stay around the 8.4 during day time.

So if you don't want to go through all of this, 2 part dosing will solve your ph problems =)

This is pretty much what I have been seeing too with regards to my carx coming online. However, I don’t see a change with the basement slider door open for hours or closed. Definitely see a difference with just Kalkwasser vs using kalk and carx. Even with Kalk, my pH stays 8.1 and below. May have seen 8.2 once. Lol

Make sure that your CaRx is not wasting co2 going down the line into the tank. A well-tuned CaRx will barely move the pH in a tank, if at all, but you have to make sure that co2 is being dissolved and not heading into the tank. This can happen at any pH and is more of an issue when using a dump/stop action of a co2 controller. Other than kalk, or a strong base, nothing can overcome directly co2 addition from a poorly tuned co2 reactor. Too many people watch that horrible YouTube video about how to tune your reactor and to throw away your instructions not knowing what they are getting into. If you have a good design CaRx and have it tuned to run 24/7 without any interruptions with a co2 controller, then you can get this thing to barely move your pH, if at all. Search around for some calcium reactor posts where I helped people if you don't believe me.

I melt a whole bag of arm or reborn (the 50 pounder) ever 6-7 months and my tank pH is always around 8.05 to 8.30 and can be manipulated by opening and closing windows, which means that there is not any extra co2 in the tank from the reactor.

I’ll look up some of your posts to see how to tune it better. I know it’s not tuned right if I am seeing a pH drop when it’s online vs not. Especially when I’m only dosing 1ml per min. I have a Geo Carx with carbon doser and kamoer peristaltic pump. So I can tune it pretty easily. Just need to lower the CO2 it’s putting out I guess. This is my first carx. I’m slowly starting to understand how each component plays a part in the effluent.

 

[PhantomHalo]

Thanks everyone for helping and trying to dumb it down for me. Lol Chemistry is not my strong suit.

 

[mattfish]

Make sure that your CaRx is not wasting co2 going down the line into the tank. A well-tuned CaRx will barely move the pH in a tank, if at all, but you have to make sure that co2 is being dissolved and not heading into the tank. This can happen at any pH and is more of an issue when using a dump/stop action of a co2 controller. Other than kalk, or a strong base, nothing can overcome directly co2 addition from a poorly tuned co2 reactor. Too many people watch that horrible YouTube video about how to tune your reactor and to throw away your instructions not knowing what they are getting into. If you have a good design CaRx and have it tuned to run 24/7 without any interruptions with a co2 controller, then you can get this thing to barely move your pH, if at all. Search around for some calcium reactor posts where I helped people if you don't believe me.

I melt a whole bag of arm or reborn (the 50 pounder) ever 6-7 months and my tank pH is always around 8.05 to 8.30 and can be manipulated by opening and closing windows, which means that there is not any extra co2 in the tank from the reactor.

Been flowing your guidelines on tuning CA RX , its been going OK but with a couple of glitches , -- i picked up a Maxi 1200 pump for a feed pump,{ my lifter pump was not doing it } , i left the hole in the coupling open as you recommended , it seems to be to much pressure , i know you said to T it off , back into the Koralin 1502 circulating pump ? is this correct ? i don't see a way to do that , did you drill a hole for tubing ? what do you think of T line just going back into the sump ? and too much pressure is really making CarbonDozer very erratic with pressure and bubbles ,, Don t think its working good any more , Think ill look into a Tunze Reg , Or do you know of any better ?



Thanks

 

[jda]

I am not really following some of this, but turn the low side pressure up on the regulator - IIRC, there is a flat screw knob on the regulator. Sometimes just a few PSI should do this. No aquarium pump should be able to overpower a regulator.

 

[PhantomHalo]

Since this thread popped up again, I was wondering if feeding O2 from a tank would work to boost pH? I’d put it on a pH regulator with a hi/low switch. Thoughts? Dumb idea?