Calcium reactor CO2 alternative?

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Jon_W79

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I could be wrong, but if I'm not mistaken weak acids like vinegar (acetic acid) will also reduce alkalinity.

CO2 associates with water molecules, forming carbonic acid. I don't know of any other acids that affect pH and not alkalinity, but if anyone can mention some it would send me down a rabbit hole of research into viable CO2 alternatives for Ca2+ reactors!
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Noted! Thanks for the info. I suppose if you dose it upstream from the reactor it's no concern, assuming all of it is consumed. If it isn't it could be a carbon source for bacteria, which could be a problem or not. Could drop your nitrate if it gets to anoxic areas, but I think it's more likely that aerobic, heterotrophic bacteria would consume most of it. Perhaps they can be skimmed out, or perhaps you'll end up with something tougher to get rid of. Tough to say, but report back if you try it!
 
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Noted! Thanks for the info. I suppose if you dose it upstream from the reactor it's no concern, assuming all of it is consumed. If it isn't it could be a carbon source for bacteria, which could be a problem or not. Could drop your nitrate if it gets to anoxic areas, but I think it's more likely that aerobic, heterotrophic bacteria would consume most of it. Perhaps they can be skimmed out, or perhaps you'll end up with something tougher to get rid of. Tough to say, but report back if you try it!
I think that a mixture of citric acid and sodium hydroxide might be the best choice for the experiment. I think you can get the mixture to have almost the same pKa as carbonic acid, or the same as acetic acid, and I think that the citric acid may not be used as an organic carbon source for bacteria.
 
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I think that a mixture of citric acid and sodium hydroxide might be the best choice for the experiment. I think you can get the mixture to have almost the same pKa as carbonic acid, or the same as acetic acid, and I think that the citric acid may not be used as an organic carbon source for bacteria.
Given that a cup of citric acid solution will grow stuff sitting on a countertop in an open beaker, why would it not serve as a carbon source in our tanks?
 
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Given that a cup of citric acid solution will grow stuff sitting on a countertop in an open beaker, why would it not serve as a carbon source in our tanks?

Given that a cup of citric acid solution will grow stuff sitting on a countertop in an open beaker, why would it not serve as a carbon source in our tanks?
I think that you might be right(at least I didn't make a definitive statement). I guess I should have done more research. I guess it was partly wishful thinking.
 
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FWIW, I think that if you used phosphoric acid that is turned into a monoprotic acid http://www.titrations.info/acid-base-titration-phosphoric-acid with a ph of 4.7, by using sodium hydroxide, it might work as a carbonic acid alternative. If someone is already dosing lanthanum chloride, and this doesn't add a crazy amount of phosphate, and it cost a whole lot less than diy two part, this might be a lot more practical than some may think it is.
 
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I wonder if it's good practice to dose lanthanum chloride on a regular basis. I was under the impression that when LACL binds to P04 it creates crystals that destroy the gills of fish. I know that those that use it drip it in a micron filter to catch the majority of the crystals. I'm curious if people are dosing it on a regular basis and if so, how does it effect fish health???
 

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Could you use an Ecotech Versa pump(or something similar)to continuously dose some kind of acid solution into a calcium reactor instead of using CO2? If this could work, and it is practical, what kind of acid would you use?

No, there's nothing else you would appropriately use.
 

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Given that a cup of citric acid solution will grow stuff sitting on a countertop in an open beaker, why would it not serve as a carbon source in our tanks?

It certainly will. All organics acids should be ruled out, IMO, for that reason, unless you are planning to dose very large amounts of acids such as vinegar.
 

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FWIW, I think that if you used phosphoric acid that is turned into a monoprotic acid http://www.titrations.info/acid-base-titration-phosphoric-acid with a ph of 4.7, by using sodium hydroxide, it might work as a carbonic acid alternative. If someone is already dosing lanthanum chloride, and this doesn't add a crazy amount of phosphate, and it cost a whole lot less than diy two part, this might be a lot more practical than some may think it is.

It is beyond a crazy amount. :)

No need to reinvent the wheel. Reefers have looked at all possibilities for decades.
 

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There are s

There are some very strong acids you can add to your aquarium that won't harm anything if you add them to the sump very slowly, and you don't add too much. They will lower ph and alkalinity though. I'm looking for an acid solution with a ph around 4.5(I think). At this ph I don't think it will lower alkalinity.

Not true. The pH of the solution is not really the important thing for whether it reduces alkalinity.

ALL acids used to lower the pH of seawater to dissolve CaCO3 reduce alkalinity. Some give it back in various ways. CO2 gives it back by being blown back off of the aquarium. Organic acids give it back by being metabolized to CO2 that is blown off. Mineral acids (HCl, H2SO4, H3PO4, HBR, etc.) never give it back.
 

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I wonder if it's good practice to dose lanthanum chloride on a regular basis. I was under the impression that when LACL binds to P04 it creates crystals that destroy the gills of fish. I know that those that use it drip it in a micron filter to catch the majority of the crystals. I'm curious if people are dosing it on a regular basis and if so, how does it effect fish health???

When I worked in life support at an aquarium we dosed lanthanum chloride at all times in our shark/predator tank. They were fed heavily. Maybe 40,000 gallons. We saw no issues. All deaths during my time there were easily explained - a shark ate it.
 

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What is different about large amounts of vinegar from small amounts of vinegar, or large amounts of other acids?

My point was that it will take a large amount of vinegar or any organic acid. In a sense, it is the same as dosing calcium acetate, plus the extra acid to bring the pH of the tank water down the the point where dissolution takes place at a reasonable speed, which for this purpose where time is important, is in the pH 6's.

Some folks (like myself) have been comfortable dosing very large amounts of vinegar. But I do not recommend that for everyone. Many tanks may bottom out on nutrients or have O2 concerns.

All other metabolizable organics acids have the same issue.

All mineral acids won't work as they permanently deplete the alkalinity.
 
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My point was that it will take a large amount of vinegar or any organic acid. In a sense, it is the same as dosing calcium acetate, plus the extra acid to bring the pH of the tank water down the the point where dissolution takes place at a reasonable speed, which for this purpose where time is important, is in the pH 6's.

Some folks (like myself) have been comfortable dosing very large amounts of vinegar. But I do not recommend that for everyone. Many tanks may bottom out on nutrients or have O2 concerns.

All other metabolizable organics acids have the same issue.

All mineral acids won't work as they permanently deplete the alkalinity.
Would citric acid add a whole lot less organic carbon than acetic acid(because I think that you would need to add a lot less, because it is a lot more acidic)? Would citric acid be a much better choice than acetic acid?
 
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jccaclimber

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Would citric acid add a whole lot less organic carbon than acetic acid(because I think that you would need to add a lot less, because it is a lot more acidic)? Would citric acid be a much better choice than acetic acid?
I have a feeling that "a whole lot less" is still going to be "a whole ton", just not "a whole (*&)(* ton". Would be interesting to compare amount of carbon added in comparison to carbon dosing though.
 
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Would citric acid add a whole lot less organic carbon than acetic acid(because I think that you would need to add a lot less, because it is a lot more acidic)? Would citric acid be a much better choice than acetic acid?
I may be wrong by saying that citric acid is a lot more acidic than acetic acid. I may have been looking at incomplete information, or I may have misunderstood what it was saying.
 
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