Calcium reactor questions

[Reef Wizard]

Good Morning,

Yesterday I won a "Calcium Reactor" while I have not looked into the setup of these. I won it in a drawing for free.

I got this product https://www.geosreef.com/product/smc618/
I have a spot on a manifold I can hook this too.

My questions are:

1. Do I absolutely need CO2 tank and regulator? Can I just run water through it or will that just essentially be more media for Nitrifying bacteria?
2. Can this specific product by itself even be run with a tank and regulator. This is just a secondary chamber.
3. Where in the world do people fit all this equipment with sump AND ato tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just answering the fist question: yes. Without CO2 it is just calcium carbonate rubble and cannot dissolve.

 

[Reef Wizard]

Just answering the fist question: yes. Without CO2 it is just calcium carbonate rubble and cannot dissolve.

okay so effectively just more real estate for nitrifying bacteria without the CO2?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

okay so effectively just more real estate for nitrifying bacteria without the CO2?

Mostly yes, and that's probably not a positive effect.

 

[Reef Wizard]

Mostly yes, and that's probably not a positive effect.

Thank you sir, What size of tank would I need like a 5lb? I assume it doesnt use much Gas?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you sir, What size of tank would I need like a 5lb? I assume it doesnt use much Gas?

I've never sized a CO2 tank. I'll leave that to folks that use them regularly.

This is the essence of how they work:

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION

There is no aspect of reef aquarium chemistry more important than calcium and alkalinity. Many of my previous articles have described various aspects of these systems in detail. In reading those articles, aquarists will note one pervasive theme: that maintaining appropriate levels of each are...

www.reefedition.com

Calcium Carbonate/Carbon Dioxide Reactors

Calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors work by removing water from the tank, adding carbon dioxide to reduce the pH to about pH 6.5, and then allowing the more acidic water to dissolve solid calcium carbonate media that is present in a mixing chamber. The water is then returned to the tank with its extra calcium and alkalinity (bicarbonate):

CaCO3 + H+ → Ca2+ + HCO3–

Reef tanks employing such reactors typically run at a pH below that of natural seawater, with typical tank pH values of 7.7 to 8.1. The reason for the low pH is the constant delivery of low pH solution to the tank, adding both excess CO2 and bicarbonate. There is no way around this completely, but some reactors incorporate a second chamber, allowing the liquid to pass over additional calcium carbonate media, making better use of the carbon dioxide that is actually added. Aquaria then blow off this extra CO2 and the pH rises, but the effect is typically not complete, and the pH often stays below what would be the case if the same tank water were fully aerated (that is, equilibrated) with normal air.

The media used is important in these systems, with the aragonite form of calcium carbonate being more readily dissolved than the calcite form (although both work). Also, the nature of the impurities can be very important, as nearly all of the impurities will be dissolved and delivered to the tank. Some of these impurities may be desired by the aquarist (such as magnesium and strontium) and some may not be (such as phosphate or copper). Phosphate in reactor media has sometimes become a point of competition between commercial suppliers of media for such reactors, but I would advise aquarists to be skeptical of some of these claims.

One big advantage of these reactors is that they can be scaled to deliver any amount of calcium and alkalinity needed by any tank. For this reason, they are greatly favored by those who have tanks with a high demand for calcium and alkalinity. Because of the low pH that often results, many of these aquarists choose to dose limewater in conjunction with the reactor, not because the reactor cannot supply enough calcium and alkalinity, but purely to raise the pH in the tank itself. The synergy between limewater and CaCO3/CO2 reactors involves more than just pH. Limewater uses up CO2 and CaCO3/CO2 reactors deliver it to the tank. Together, they combine to keep CO2 (and consequently, pH) more in line with natural seawater.

Calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors take up a substantial amount of space, since one needs a carbon dioxide cylinder, a reaction chamber, and a pump. Typically, these systems are used close to a tank, but they could be remote if appropriate water flows to and from the tank could be worked out. Once an aquarist has properly adjusted the reactor system, it requires minimal monitoring for a substantial period. Tank salinity will not increase over time using calcium carbonate/carbon dioxide reactors.

The likelihood of problems from overdosing using such a reactor is minimal. Since the pH is typically low, even substantially elevated calcium and alkalinity values may not cause a dramatic calcium carbonate precipitation event. More likely is just slow precipitation onto heaters and pump impellers. Accidental delivery of large amounts of CO2 to the tank is a concern, but that is a rare accident.

The initial costs of such reactor systems can be considerable, typically about $300-600 for the reactor itself, plus additional costs for the CO2 apparatus. Media costs vary, but a bit over $2 per pounds is typical. That puts the media cost at about $0.30 per thousand meq of alkalinity. DIY ground limestone can be used as media for a tiny fraction of this cost, if you can find it locally. The carbon dioxide cost also needs to be figured in, so that might push the total to about $0.40 per thousand meq of alkalinity.

The primary safety concern for these systems involves the carbon dioxide gas cylinder. Any high-pressure gas cylinder can be very dangerous if the cylinder head should become damaged. So be careful to not drop such cylinders least they become rockets.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This may be helpful in deciding whether to use it:

Pros and Cons of Alkalinity and Calcium Dosing Methods

Pros and Cons of Alkalinity and Calcium Dosing Methods How to decide which is best for you and your aquarium. By Randy Holmes-Farley Supplementing calcium and alkalinity is one of the most important chemistry requirements for most reef...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reefering1]

That is a secondary chamber, has no provisions for circulation pump. It is intended to be plumbed to the output line of a calcium reactor. By itself it is basically a media reactor chamber.

 

[Reef Wizard]

That is a secondary chamber, has no provisions for circulation pump. It is intended to be plumbed to the output line of a calcium reactor. By itself it is basically a media reactor chamber.

Could it be used as a kalkwasser Reactor?

 

[twentyleagues]

Thank you sir, What size of tank would I need like a 5lb? I assume it doesnt use much Gas?

I think @Randy Holmes-Farley covered that all very well. But you would need more than the co2 tank you would also need the primary calcium reactor chamber and all its parts. I ran one years ago. Luckily I had someone who was available to me to help me out getting up and running and helping me iron out the kinks. I did run mine with a kalk reactor to help with ph. I dont know if I would try one on my own tbh now. The guy helping me was a bubble counter kind of guy but my carx had 2 ph ports one to see ph of the "melting" chamber and one for effluent. Mine had the secondary chamber like you won. I remember it being kind of a pain to get dialed in as he kept wanting to ignore the ph probes and just go by how many co2 bubbles where being injected. After initial setup and messing around for a while I got some more info from forums members and got a good ph dialed in. Counting bubbles is ok but the pressure in the co2 canister will change over time and apparently with ambient room temp also. So basically a good ph monitor is a must have also.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could it be used as a kalkwasser Reactor?

No. Those need internal stirring.

 

[twentyleagues]

Could it be used as a kalkwasser Reactor?

Most kalk reactors have a stir function to keep the kalk in kind of a suspension so I dont think so. I used a tunze kalk reactor that had the ato add water to the bottom and the mixed kalk would come out of the top. Not a bad design unless for some reason your ato get stuck on.

 

[Reef Wizard]

Most kalk reactors have a stir function to keep the kalk in kind of a suspension so I dont think so. I used a tunze kalk reactor that had the ato add water to the bottom and the mixed kalk would come out of the top. Not a bad design unless for some reason your ato get stuck on.

Man alright guess I just got an acrylic cylinder at this point I already have a biopellet and a gfo reactor

 

[Reefering1]

Tell us about your system, does it have any issues or need for anything?

 

[Subsea]

Good Morning,

Yesterday I won a "Calcium Reactor" while I have not looked into the setup of these. I won it in a drawing for free.

I got this product https://www.geosreef.com/product/smc618/
I have a spot on a manifold I can hook this too.

My questions are:

1. Do I absolutely need CO2 tank and regulator? Can I just run water through it or will that just essentially be more media for Nitrifying bacteria?
2. Can this specific product by itself even be run with a tank and regulator. This is just a secondary chamber.
3. Where in the world do people fit all this equipment with sump AND ato tank

I built my own calcium reactor for a large coral & algae growout system that I operated in 1980’s. When I moved to Austin, I discontinued its operation. Now that I have seaweed grow-out tanks, I see an ideal application. For fertilizer, I presently dose ammonia & kelp concentrate and if I add biocarbononate, it combines with photosynthesis to produce glucose, which is natures way to carbon dose.

 

[Reef Wizard]

Tell us about your system, does it have any issues or need for anything?

The only issue is nitrates are high right now about 40ppm but that's my neglect due to a foot injury

But parameters are
8.1ph
Alk 8.9
Cal 412
Mag 1324
Phos is about 0.3 (usually this high)

Tank is 13 months old. Coralline growth seems slow as well but corals are doing good. I just had a torch get a new head and my leptos are growing and of course mushrooms are dropping babies

 

[Reef Wizard]

If anyone has any ideas for the reactor chamber let me know. DIY or not.

 

[Reef Wizard]

Tell us about your system, does it have any issues or need for anything?

Most kalk reactors have a stir function to keep the kalk in kind of a suspension so I dont think so. I used a tunze kalk reactor that had the ato add water to the bottom and the mixed kalk would come out of the top. Not a bad design unless for some reason your ato get stuck on.

I built my own calcium reactor for a large coral & algae growout system that I operated in 1980’s. When I moved to Austin, I discontinued its operation. Now that I have seaweed grow-out tanks, I see an ideal application. For fertilizer, I presently dose ammonia & kelp concentrate and if I add biocarbononate, it combines with photosynthesis to produce glucose, which is natures way to carbon dose.

No. Those need internal stirring.

Hello guys,

I just had a thought can I use it as a Sulfur reactor? I can put it on the manifold and adjust the intake and get a precision needle valve on the effluent valve?

Thoughts? No go or yes?

 

[Reefering1]

That is a option. I have no 1st hand experience with sulfur but as long as you can slow the flow, it should work.
Maybe a remote deep sand bed, with a little modification, could work. What size tank do you have? What size unit did you win?

 

[Reef Wizard]

That is a option. I have no 1st hand experience with sulfur but as long as you can slow the flow, it should work.
Maybe a remote deep sand bed, with a little modification, could work. What size tank do you have? What size unit did you win?

Its that exact one I linked above and 200 gallon system volume including the sump