Calling all SPS guru's need 2-part HELP!

[Newb_reefer1]

hey there everyone, Kyle here looking for some help with a few things. Basically the reason for this thread is my adventuring into sps corals started with 4 frags a few months ago which all survived the "sps test" per say which in turn led to me purchasing 4 more which has turned into a full blown obsession. Now Regular weekly WC are no longer keeping up with demands for calcium and alkalinity consumption since I added a few more lps & sps corals than the original four frags in the tank, leading to me purchasing the full line of Red Sea's reef foundation A,B & C supplements as well as Red Sea's Alk, Cal and Mag pro test kits yesterday. So without further adue my question to you all is when testing for water Params how do you figure out the amount of the [(trace)elements] being depleted by the corals throughout the day, (could it be as easy as subtracting the levels you're water is testing at compared to the levels You want them to be at ? Then applying that number in ppm to the dosage chart on the back of the supplement bottles showing how many ml per gallon it would convert into from the difference in ppm ? based on my theory, essentially figuring out how much is being sucked out of the water column in a specific time period and replacing it as fast as possible or is there more to it ? ) and also once you figure out that rate of depletion how would one go about steadily dosing a tank with a 2 part supplementation system if said person does not own a dosing pump to do it for them incrementally throughout the day ? I've been having a hard time trying to figure this one out so I thought to myself might as well reach out to you sps guru's & veteran reefers on this forum too see what you guys are doing to keep parameters stable long term while dosing 2 part supplements. Thanks in advance to anyone willing to help out, I'll leave my tank picture up on top of here so everyone can see what I'm working with while I await the barrage of help to come :rolleyes:

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Not sure how I forgot to put this in the thread but all across except one have went from colorful to pretty much brown what is the cause of this I've been reading it's from low light but I have a 20k 250w metal halife bulb over the tank & here's a picture with my first 2 water tests 12 hours apart from each other with no dosing I between however I think I did the second mag & cal test wrong cause they were dramatically higher than the day before in ppm

 

[Luke Schnabel]

I dose my tank with 2 part. I dose 24times a day. Every hour, alternating between calcium one hour and Alk the following hour. Right now I have a fairly decent amount of corals but about 4-5 SPS coral. I dose about 95ml of each cal/Alk

 

[dbrewsky]

So here is my recommendation on how to implement 2-part using red seas reef foundation system or any other ca/alk/mag supplement:

- Establish a base line reading at the same time of day that you are likely to be available each day for testing and dosing the two-part. Do an accurate test of calcium/alkalinity/Magnesium and notate these results
- Determine where your levels are at this time and where you want them to be: example calcium test results=410 desired calcium=425
- Utilize the instructions provided with the red sea kit to determine how many ml of each solution will be needed to reach the desired readings based on the water volume of your tank in gallons.
-Dose these amounts to your tank, wait 30 minutes and perform your tests again to confirm your results. If you dosed each solution correctly for the proper volume of water in your system, your tests results should indicate this rather accurately. IE you intended to raise calcium from 410- 425 so you dosed xxml of calicum solution and the test resulted in a reading of 425. If your parameters are off significantly from your desired levels I would recommend you take the corrective dose and break that amount into smaller doses and add them to the tank over the next couple days until you reach your desired levels
-Once you confirm your alk/calcium/magnesium are at the proper concentrations, you will now try to determine how much is is dropping in a 24 hour period and correct this. If it appears to be dropping 10ppm per day- add the appropriate xxml of two-part to correct this.
- The key now is to test daily at the same time and continue to dose your two-part. If your alk/calcium keeps falling below your levels, increase your dose a few ml at a time until it stabilizes. If it creeps higher, simply reduce your dosage.
-Your test kit readings will fluctuate a small amount and it is not necessary to hit your intended parameter numbers exactly, you want to be looking for trends over time to determine if you are maintaining your calcium/alkalinity or you need to adjust your dose
- Dosing once a day by hand is usually find until your coral's demand gets higher. You can try and break the doses into morning/evening additions or consider dosers. Dosers are really the way to go from a ease of use and stability standpoint and you will not regret the purchase. BRS dosers are pretty reliable and don't cost a fortune.
- Lastly, magnesium does not get depleted nearly as fast as alkalinity and calcium, do get in the habit of testing once a week for MAG. I recommend testing alkalinity every day at the same time, it really tunes you in and helps you understand the chemistry going on in the tank and allows you to make small corrective actions and catch problems before your corals tell you they are un happy.

 

[Newb_reefer1]

So here is my recommendation on how to implement 2-part using red seas reef foundation system or any other ca/alk/mag supplement:

- Establish a base line reading at the same time of day that you are likely to be available each day for testing and dosing the two-part. Do an accurate test of calcium/alkalinity/Magnesium and notate these results
- Determine where your levels are at this time and where you want them to be: example calcium test results=410 desired calcium=425
- Utilize the instructions provided with the red sea kit to determine how many ml of each solution will be needed to reach the desired readings based on the water volume of your tank in gallons.
-Dose these amounts to your tank, wait 30 minutes and perform your tests again to confirm your results. If you dosed each solution correctly for the proper volume of water in your system, your tests results should indicate this rather accurately. IE you intended to raise calcium from 410- 425 so you dosed xxml of calicum solution and the test resulted in a reading of 425. If your parameters are off significantly from your desired levels I would recommend you take the corrective dose and break that amount into smaller doses and add them to the tank over the next couple days until you reach your desired levels
-Once you confirm your alk/calcium/magnesium are at the proper concentrations, you will now try to determine how much is is dropping in a 24 hour period and correct this. If it appears to be dropping 10ppm per day- add the appropriate xxml of two-part to correct this.
- The key now is to test daily at the same time and continue to dose your two-part. If your alk/calcium keeps falling below your levels, increase your dose a few ml at a time until it stabilizes. If it creeps higher, simply reduce your dosage.
-Your test kit readings will fluctuate a small amount and it is not necessary to hit your intended parameter numbers exactly, you want to be looking for trends over time to determine if you are maintaining your calcium/alkalinity or you need to adjust your dose
- Dosing once a day by hand is usually find until your coral's demand gets higher. You can try and break the doses into morning/evening additions or consider dosers. Dosers are really the way to go from a ease of use and stability standpoint and you will not regret the purchase. BRS dosers are pretty reliable and don't cost a fortune.
- Lastly, magnesium does not get depleted nearly as fast as alkalinity and calcium, do get in the habit of testing once a week for MAG. I recommend testing alkalinity every day at the same time, it really tunes you in and helps you understand the chemistry going on in the tank and allows you to make small corrective actions and catch problems before your corals tell you they are un happy.

Thank you this is exactly what I was looking for ! So for confirmation let's go off the numbers from my first reading, alkalinity was at 8.2 dKH magnesium was at 1340 and cal was at 400. According to red seas instructions it is as follows. Magnesium: 1ml will raise the Mg level of 100 liters (25gal) by 1ppm. 2ml rises Magnesium lvl 1ppm in 50g of water , Alkalinity: 1ml will raise the alkalinity of 100 liters (25gal) by 0.036 meq/l (0.1dKH), Calcium: 1ml will raise the Ca level of 100 liters (25 gal) by 2ppm. 2ml will raise Ca level of 50g of water by 2ppm. so let's say if i wanted calcium at 420 would I just dose 20ml of the calcium solution to my tank since my total water volume is about 50 gallons +/- 5 gallons or would that be too great of a jump also curious how much is too much to add at one time

 

[dbrewsky]

So if 2ml will raise 50 gallons by 2ppm you would want to dose 10 ml to raise your calcium to 420.

So go ahead and add this and retest your parameters. Once you have achieved them the corals should utilize calcium and alkalinity in a fixed ratio. So make sure once you start making your daily additions to add the same amount of alk and calcium!

If you are curious for more information regarding two part dosing and the chemistry behind it, check out bulk reef supply's videos on their you tube channel. Seeing it done helps a lot of people as instructions can sometimes get confusing and complicated at first.

 

[Diesel]

Reactor for me as my two part had a hard time to keep up with 600+ ml per day

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Wow that's a lot to dose in a day haha

 

[Diesel]

Wow that's a lot to dose in a day haha

Yes it was.
I was mixing every week a new batch of two part.
Now with my CaRx it's a no brainer, every six months I refill it with newborn.

 

[Russ265]

Reactor for me as my two part had a hard time to keep up with 600+ ml per day

im not looking forward to this when my corals "grow into" my tank.

atm 60ml a day

 

[LakeCityReefs]

I have a 50 gallon mixed reef. I am currently adjusting for a drop in 1 DKH and 20 ppm Ca per day. Keep in mind that corals use Alk and Ca in almost equal parts. 1 DKH = 18 ppm.
I dose BRS 2 part. 40 ml Alk and 60 ml Ca. daily.

I have recently increased my nitrates and my Alk and Ca consumption are increasing but I haven't completely dialed it in yet.

I noticed that your nitrates are 0 and I didn't see your phosphate levels. After you get down the dosing routine start to look at those perameters. It's not super important right now but that will be your next step.

 

[Bpb]

Sounds like you're going full steam ahead with the dosing. I voted Calcium Reactor. A little more expensive up front if you buy quality gear, but much more stable and much less maintenance time wise

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Sounds like you're going full steam ahead with the dosing. I voted Calcium Reactor. A little more expensive up front if you buy quality gear, but much more stable and much less maintenance time wise

Thanks for you're input at this time I have decided to go with 2-part dosing for a number of reasons the ultimate deciding factor however was my wallet, I can very easily afford the 20$ or so a month for supplements no problem but with all the other things to spend our cash on throughout the month I just couldn't justify paying upwards from 2-400$ upfront when I have so many other things to be worried about.. Maybe I'll change my mind if the dosing becomes costly or counter productive, have also read many horror stories from reactors malfunctioning, I just want something quick and easy. check on it in the morning before I got to work when I feed my fish, and enjoy when I get home.

Edit : however the aquamaxx S-nano cal reactor caught my eye the price was doable and the size seemed to be too perfect for my small sump area anyone have experience with one ? And how in the hell do you dial in a reactor?? Never been able to figure that part out watched hours of videos and read through thousands of pages of forums and research and I'm at a loss

 

[Bpb]

Well. The problem with the horror stories you read about calcium reactors 9 times out of 10 are people using cheap feed pump methods, and cheap co2 regulators. A quality peristaltic feed pump and dual stage regulator (or even the aquarium plants regulator if you went that route) are going to add $500+ to the cost of the reactor no matter what size you choose. Also don't forget the ph probe/monitor/controller, and media

A couple things generally happen with a calcium reactor failure... Either a clogged effluent line valve which results in rapidly and heavily fluctuating alkalinity values, which can lead to RTN of sps. Remedied by using a continuous duty adjustable peristaltic pump ($250-1000 depending on how nice a unit you get and where) where the pump sets the effluent speed, not a valve, no more risk of clogged lines, ever. This is not a hobby item. You will not find it through a fish product retailer. It's a medical and laboratory device. Found on eBay and through med surplus retailers

CO2 solenoid/controller failure, causing co2 to either stop or dump massive amounts of gas into the regulator. Resulting in either melted media, massive alk spike, tank wide ph drop, pressurized reactor springing a leak. Remedied by using a quality dual stage regulator and solenoid that runs at lower voltage, has a higher pressure stopping rating, more reliable components, and can hold perfectly stable pressure even if the tank empties. Stable gas 24/7. But they'll run between $250-500 a unit and often require some diy to mod them for our purposes, this is a lab/medical field device. Not a hobby grade item. So you won't find one at a fish store or online retailer (except GLA if you just WANT to pay 100% more)

 

[mcarroll]

Reactor for me as my two part had a hard time to keep up with 600+ ml per day

im not looking forward to this when my corals "grow into" my tank.

atm 60ml a day

I dosed manually all the way to my tank being absolutely full of stony corals....so full there was no room left for much else but the flow pumps! So I don't wanna hear whining about dosing pumps not being able to cut it. You both have had it EASY! ;)

People forget what's possible without automation sometimes.

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks for you're input at this time I have decided to go with 2-part dosing for a number of reasons [...]

You made the right call in this reefer's opinion.

I don't know what the ratio is of successful CO2 reactor users to non-successful ones, but it's gotta be low judging from everyone I've seen try (and ultimately ditch).

Virtually everyone succeeds on their first try with dosing pumps. Even DIY.

(Tho don't fool yourself into thinking any automation is foolproof!!!)

 

[Newb_reefer1]

I dosed manually all the way to my tank being absolutely full of stony corals....so full there was no room left for much else but the flow pumps! So I don't wanna hear whining about dosing pumps not being able to cut it. You both have had it EASY! ;)

People forget what's possible without automation sometimes.

I am very interested in how you manually dosed a tank that full ! If you would be so kind to share some wisdom on this thread about how you pulled that off or pm me that would be much appreciated ! I'm specifically interested in the amount that can be dosed safely in a single " session " if you will without causing swings in parameters. Also how many times throughout the day were you dosing ? Every morning/night , every hour, every other hour ?? Heard very mixed reviews about all this really just looking for a proven method that has produced the success I seek in my reef in other reefs on this board

 

[mcarroll]

Mind you, dosing pumps then were still $100+ per head. With cheap Chinese peristaltic pumps going for just 20% of that these days, I might have done it differently. And remember I didn't claim it was glamorous or "best". :)

Also, I've posted about this a few times, including a chart of my test numbers over some time if you feel like searching through some of my old posts.

Here, in a nutshell, is how it went down....

WHAT WAS THE APPROACH?
I started off the tank slow and with the intention of focusing on corals exclusively.

In my estimation (which hasn't changed much), marine fish were too expensive, poorly understood, too jumpy and my 38 gallon was basically too small for most fish. Plus I was fascinated with SPS coral from before I even had a marine tank.

I added one coral at a time and watched for months before adding the next so I was in rhythm with the tank.

WHAT DID I USE?
I tested alk and calcium regularly and let alkalinity measurements dictate my water change schedule. I started off with 5 gallon water changes every week or two, which at the beginning was actually more than enough.

As demand for alk increased I used Brightwell's Reef Elements along with religious, weekly water changes, and then finally added two-part (brightwell Calcion and Alkalin8.3 a la Recipe #1) to my arsenal.

Once I was dosing enough two-part that I could feel it in the wallet I switched to DIY reagents and Randy's Recipe #1.

This worked for a while, but I ended up switching to Recipe #2...which I now think most people should use. Recipe #1 actually seems silly with all the baking of the baking soda. Completely unnecessary under anything close to normal circumstances.

So, using recipe #2 is where I stayed for a long time.....I added kalkwasser for a while, but unless you're pretty dedicated to it, kalk can be a bother. So currently I'm just doing two-part.

HOW DID I DOSE?
EVERY SINGLE DAY. Misses are not good...especially once the coral load is rolling.

And usually once a day. Only when making a large correction, which was rare, would I split the dose and go twice a day.

When I got up to larger quantities I started making contraptions to drip two-part out of. It turns out that half an orange juice container, some airline and an air valve work really well! I'll try to scare up a new picture.

I would almost always dilute the dose by 50% or more once it was in the dripper, just to minimize the impact of a dose.

If it was an ordinary dose I could let it drip at about the maximum rate the dripper would go (30-45 min), but if I was making a correction, which is a larger dose, I'd dial the valve in a bit to a slow drip.


Hope that helps! Let me know if I missed any points! :)

 

[mcarroll]

The drippper (one of a pair):

Dang that's blurry! :p

 

[mcarroll]

The thread that had the chart of my dosing numbers:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-testing-results-chart-stony-coral-system.93864/