Calling all SPS guru's need 2-part HELP!

[Sabellafella]

im not looking forward to this when my corals "grow into" my tank.

atm 60ml a day

600 mls a day! Imagine that, id have to top my reservoir off every 3 days lol thatll be a disaster

 

[mcarroll]

5 gallons lasts a month at that rate....and buckets are cheap! ;)

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Mind you, dosing pumps then were still $100+ per head. With cheap Chinese peristaltic pumps going for just 20% of that these days, I might have done it differently. And remember I didn't claim it was glamorous or "best". :)

Also, I've posted about this a few times, including a chart of my test numbers over some time if you feel like searching through some of my old posts.

Here, in a nutshell, is how it went down....

WHAT WAS THE APPROACH?
I started off the tank slow and with the intention of focusing on corals exclusively.

In my estimation (which hasn't changed much), marine fish were too expensive, poorly understood, too jumpy and my 38 gallon was basically too small for most fish. Plus I was fascinated with SPS coral from before I even had a marine tank.

I added one coral at a time and watched for months before adding the next so I was in rhythm with the tank.

WHAT DID I USE?
I tested alk and calcium regularly and let alkalinity measurements dictate my water change schedule. I started off with 5 gallon water changes every week or two, which at the beginning was actually more than enough.

As demand for alk increased I used Brightwell's Reef Elements along with religious, weekly water changes, and then finally added two-part (brightwell Calcion and Alkalin8.3 a la Recipe #1) to my arsenal.

Once I was dosing enough two-part that I could feel it in the wallet I switched to DIY reagents and Randy's Recipe #1.

This worked for a while, but I ended up switching to Recipe #2...which I now think most people should use. Recipe #1 actually seems silly with all the baking of the baking soda. Completely unnecessary under anything close to normal circumstances.

So, using recipe #2 is where I stayed for a long time.....I added kalkwasser for a while, but unless you're pretty dedicated to it, kalk can be a bother. So currently I'm just doing two-part.

HOW DID I DOSE?
EVERY SINGLE DAY. Misses are not good...especially once the coral load is rolling.

And usually once a day. Only when making a large correction, which was rare, would I split the dose and go twice a day.

When I got up to larger quantities I started making contraptions to drip two-part out of. It turns out that half an orange juice container, some airline and an air valve work really well! I'll try to scare up a new picture.

I would almost always dilute the dose by 50% or more once it was in the dripper, just to minimize the impact of a dose.

If it was an ordinary dose I could let it drip at about the maximum rate the dripper would go (30-45 min), but if I was making a correction, which is a larger dose, I'd dial the valve in a bit to a slow drip.


Hope that helps! Let me know if I missed any points! :)

The thread that had the chart of my dosing numbers:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-testing-results-chart-stony-coral-system.93864/

Absolutely awesome response to say the least. Thank you and everyone else who's been willing to pitch in so far! I will check out the link you provided and let yall know if I have any further questions. But got some great news instead! im very excited to have just found out a long time friend of mines step dad apparently is an sps guru himself:D he has one hell of an awesome, packed sps reef at his house. And after talking to him about his tank setup & the requirements/demands of the system aswell as all the beautiful fancy coral he's got growing in there, he has offered to help me get everything dialed in parameter wise with my water chemistry and after that he said he's going to " trim " his tank for me :eek:

 

[Newb_reefer1]

So today's the first day I actually dosed for something, I checked my Params in the morning around 9 am a time I'm always up available to dose.
DKH-7.4
Cal- was at 470
Mag-was at 1380
according to red seas instructions and a reef based dosing calculator I found online I determined I needed to dose 36.4 ml of the alkalinity solution to raise my DKH from 7.4 to around 9 give or take .1 cause I guessed 60g as my total water volume.
( Probobly off on that guess ) So I added the dose and tested again this time the parameters were
DKH-9.1
Cal - 470
Mag- 1380
Am I doing this right ??

 

[Bpb]

That's all very clever and crafty but id rather just spend a few bucks on some dosers than go through all that

 

[Newb_reefer1]

That's all very clever and crafty but id rather just spend a few bucks on some dosers than go through all that

Oh trust me I am going to, I don't plan on dosing every morning like this it's already too much in a sense of ease of use, now I wouldn't mind writing down the time and day of my tests and their results along with how much I dosed and what it changed the values to everyday if I had to, but I'm somewhat lazy so I would rather automate the process. Manual dosing to me is just to keep everything in check and happy until I csn buy a doser and get it tuned to pump some additives :rolleyes: plus I feel like a little mini ocean scientist adding these cloudy white serums into my tank water to increase skeletal/tissue growth LOL

 

[mcarroll]

I agree that you are on the right track but I would not be in a hurry to automate for all of the reasons you stated - keeping a dosing journal is something that everyone should do in my opinion. The minor hassle of daily dosing is no more hassle than the daily feeding of your fish…

I think manual dosing is only a hassle for people psychosomatically....we can get over it just like we do for the fish.

And FWIW you should be feeling like a little ocean scientist and you should be absorbing that feeling and every drop of learning that can come from it. :cool:

 

[Newb_reefer1]

I agree that you are on the right track but I would not be in a hurry to automate for all of the reasons you stated - keeping a dosing journal is something that everyone should do in my opinion. The minor hassle of daily dosing is no more hassle than the daily feeding of your fish…

I think manual dosing is only a hassle for people psychosomatically....we can get over it just like we do for the fish.

And FWIW you should be feeling like a little ocean scientist and you should be absorbing that feeling and every drop of learning that can come from it. :cool:

Believe me I am in no hurry to buy one, however I will have one at some point in this tank. If that makes sense I plan on dosing manually until I have 100% dialed in my daily consumption rate for not only the corals I have right now but once I have added all the corals I plan to keep. I will then purchase the doser for grow out reasons, but more than likely i will be buying one so I can dose the total needs of the system slowly throughout the day rather than a big addition every morning I feel it will promote much better success with much more stable water chemistry. Also here's my past couple of days test results are as follows :
1. 6/27/16. 9 Am before work
DKH- 7.4
Cal-470
Mag- 1380
2. 6/27/16. 12AM after dosing 36ml DKH
DKH - 9.1
Cal - didn't check figured it would be the same since nothing was dosed (470)
Mag- didn't check figured it would be the same since nothing was dosed (1380)
3. 6/27/16 9pm after work
DKH 8.4
Cal- 390 (dropped 80 ppm in 12 hours??) must of messed this one up according to 6/28 test results ?
Mag- forgot to check ?!? (I'm assuming it's dropping 40ppm in a 24 hour period though based on the mag levels from 6/27-6/28 @ 9AM)
4. 6/28/16 9am before work (PH 8.2)
DKH- 8.0
Cal-425
Mag- 1340

Will be checking again tomorrow to verify my daily consumption and after that I will start my daily dosing and testing to fine tune the adjustments on dosage :D can anyone verify if I'm filling the right path with all this testing and dosing ?

 

[mcarroll]

slowly throughout the day rather than a big addition every morning

Using a dripper solves this concern...and doesn't have to cost much. (Aqua Medic does make a nice dripper if you're DIY-phobic though...doesn't cost too much.)

Definitely a good plan for the doser, and you're on the right track with your testing/dosing IMO! :)

 

[Newb_reefer1]

So I've got some questions again :rolleyes: LOL. Anyways I just finished up with my testing over the period of the past 24 hours to try and determine what my daily drop rate for alkalinity, calcium and magnesium would be in ppm. I believe I have found my answers but I'm going to go ahead and post my numbers up here I remember seeing somewhere that the elements all deplete at an even ratio to each other. So I was wondering with the numbers I am getting for my approximate daily drop, do they seem to follow that curve of depression or am I loosing to much of one element too quickly/not fast enough ? Or is that not even a possibility ?
Here are my readings:
6/28/16 9am before work (PH 8.2)
Alk-8.0 DKH
Cal-425 ppm
Mag- 1340 ppm

6/28/16 9pm after work
Alk- 7.8 DKH
Cal- 410 ppm
Mag- 1330 ppm

6/29/16 9am before work (PH 8.2)
Alk- 7.6 DKH
Cal- 380 ppm
Mag- 1320 ppm

My Approx. Daily consumption
Alk- 0.4 DKH
Cal- 45 ppm
Mag-20 ppm

Does that seem logical to y'all veterans ?

 

[Bpb]

Seems logical to me. Only ? Would
Be the Mg drop. That's interesting. At no point in the last several years have I found myself needing to regularly dose mg. but I guess every tank is different. Those ca and alk depletion levels look normal

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Mag daily needs from a reef calculator.
https://imgur.com/a/GHNTc

Calcium same as above.
https://imgur.com/a/k7K0x

And alkalinity from the same site (all plugged in using what I assumed was my correct daily drop FYI)
https://imgur.com/a/zp6wQ

Can anyone guide me on how I should go about with the dosing to replenish what is lost daily along with increasing the numbers To where I want them at ? For instance should I add the approximate daily consumption in addition to the amount of ml it would take to get my Parameters where I want them to stay ? Or am I missing something with all this?
I'm shooting for 9 DKH, 420 cal , and 1350 mag

according to the calculator i would need 31.8 ml of the reef foundation liquid to bring the level from 7.6 to 9.0 DKH and then another 9.1 ml a day to maintain that level. Should I add just the 31.8 ml wait a day then add the 9.1ml everyday after that or should I be adding 40.9 ml right now then adding 9.1 ml every 24 hours after that ?

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Seems logical to me. Only ? Would
Be the Mg drop. That's interesting. At no point in the last several years have I found myself needing to regularly dose mg. but I guess every tank is different. Those ca and alk depletion levels look normal

That's where I'm iffy aswell I've read of people having to dose mag almost never with the exception being one time a month usually, is there any thing I could do to see why mag is dropping so frequently ?

 

[mcarroll]

In general people's variability with magnesium is just due to the quantity of water changes they do or don't do.

Your daily maintenance dose is all you will be doing most of the time eventually.

When I'm not tuning in a brand-new doser, I typically test less than once a month (sometimes a lot less) at this stage in my tank (8 yrs) and just do my adjustment dose (if any) with that testing.

 

[Newb_reefer1]

In general people's variability with magnesium is just due to the quantity of water changes they do or don't do.

Your daily maintenance dose is all you will be doing most of the time eventually.

When I'm not tuning in a brand-new doser, I typically test less than once a month (sometimes a lot less) at this stage in my tank (8 yrs) and just do my adjustment dose (if any) with that testing.

Thanks for the insight can you cover this for me lol I think you missed it. :D
according to the calculator i would need 31.8 ml of the reef foundation liquid to bring the level from 7.6 to 9.0 DKH and then another 9.1 ml a day to maintain that level. Should I add just the 31.8 ml wait a day then add the 9.1ml everyday after that or should I be adding 40.9 ml right now then adding 9.1 ml every 24 hours after that ?

 

[mcarroll]

Yup...the adjustment amount is only correct at the time you test and it is supposed to raise the level up to par.

So no further dosing should be called for - it's ok to test and verify this!!

And you should start your normal dosing of "9.1 mL" the next day...and the next... ;)

I re-tested and verified every water change and every dose when I started out. I stopped doing that as soon as I could predict the test results - figured I was doing it right at that point. :) Same will happen to you....

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Thanks you all so much for all the help I don't know how I would have figured all this out without y'all. I think I've got this whole idea down now though. Will check my numbers for the next week daily after adding the dose of ml for alk, cal & mag needed every 24 hours and will post results here. hopefully everything stays relatively the same and these bad boys start coloring up :D still curious on how to do a water change and have levels stay within desired ranges however... I'm using reef crystals salt mix & it seems to be off on some values how do I correct that or should I just dose accordingly after doing the change ? P.S I'm starting to see a lot of color starting to appear on my corals I'm getting so excited things are encrusting plugs and growing !! Where would I be without y'all seriously

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Approx. Daily consumption values
DKH- 0.4
Cal- 45 ppm
Mag-20 ppm

6/30/16 I dosed 9.1ml of alk, 68.2 ml of mag & 45.5ml of cal @ 10am after dosing for approx. daily consumption rates @ 9am
DKH- 9.5
Cal- 460
Mag- 1360

According to these numbers I should most likely drop the dosage a little bit to get them to maintain at 9.0, 420,1350

 

[mcarroll]

Yup :)

 

[Newb_reefer1]

So I got called into work earlier than normal yesterday didn't get to dose myself in the morning or test so I asked my dad to do the ml dosing for me I think he might have added too much however my calcium numbers were a bit high this morning after I dosed. Gonna drop the dosing like 10-15 ml on the calcium additive and see what happens. Alk and mag has stayed the same over the days :D
7/2/16 after dosing @ 9am this morning
DKH- 9.0
Cal- 490
Mag- 1360