Calling Randy...Tropic Marin's All The Reef?

[tsav87]

Hey Randy, I wanted to get your take on Tropic Marin's All The Reef. TIA!

https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/en/minerals/all-for-reef.html#open-5

 

[Flippers4pups]

Bump? Anyone use this? European friends have you tried it?

@Jason mack, @Lasse ?

 

[Martin Kuhn]

There are several of these all-in-one supplies available. With this one TM managed even to bring it in a liquid form which is not as easy.

As understandable it is that we tend to reduce complex things to the max with AIOs.....
I anyhow recommend using 2- or 3-part dosing as this is much more flexible. You can’t adjust Ca vs Alkalinity with AIO systems. Also they are quite expensive.

 

[tsav87]

There are several of these all-in-one supplies available. With this one TM managed even to bring it in a liquid form which is not as easy.

As understandable it is that we tend to reduce complex things to the max with AIOs.....
I anyhow recommend using 2- or 3-part dosing as this is much more flexible. You can’t adjust Ca vs Alkalinity with AIO systems. Also they are quite expensive.

I understand what you are saying. In my tank, it's mostly softies with a few LPS and even fewer SPS. My dKh drops by 1-2 per WEEK. If a system, is already balanced and doesn't use much AIO solution to keep the levels correct, I think that these AIO dosing systems can work, for tanks like mine. My tank is nearly a year and a half old.

 

[cgdcinc]

Have you tried Kalkwasser to help keep calcium and alkalinity stable?
I have a similar set up and it has worked well in my systems.
Although some do not like to use it.
It’s inexpensive and easy to use in an ATO or drip.
Once I got calcium and alk where I wanted it kalk kept it stable.

 

[tsav87]

Have you tried Kalkwasser to help keep calcium and alkalinity stable?
I have a similar set up and it has worked well in my systems.
Although some do not like to use it.
It’s inexpensive and easy to use in an ATO or drip.
Once I got calcium and alk where I wanted it kalk kept it stable.

While that would work for ca and alk, kalk dosnt add in mag or any othe trace elements. I’m looking for a more wholistic approach to dosing and making it as simple as possible.

 

[Martin Kuhn]

Try it.
Although it should work, i‘m pretty sure you end with a different dosing System later

 

[cgdcinc]

While that would work for ca and alk, kalk dosnt add in mag or any othe trace elements. I’m looking for a more wholistic approach to dosing and making it as simple as possible.

Completely agree and understand. [emoji106]

 

[Martin Kuhn]

Try it.
Although it should work, i‘m pretty sure you end with a different dosing System later

 

[tsav87]

Try it.
Although it should work, i‘m pretty sure you end with a different dosing System later

You are probably right. At least I can ease into it one dosing pump at a time this way lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, I wanted to get your take on Tropic Marin's All The Reef. TIA!

https://www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com/en/minerals/all-for-reef.html#open-5

If you like the idea of an all in one, it seems like a fine one to try.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While that would work for ca and alk, kalk dosnt add in mag or any othe trace elements. I’m looking for a more wholistic approach to dosing and making it as simple as possible.

This all in one also is not perfect. It ties alk to calcium, as limewater does, and ties a small amount of organic carbon dosing to both (which you may or may not prefer).

 

[PookieGV]

Tsa87, nice tank! Like your lights.

 

[tsav87]

Tsa87, nice tank! Like your lights.

Thanks

 

[Tamberav]

This all in one also is not perfect. It ties alk to calcium, as limewater does, and ties a small amount of organic carbon dosing to both (which you may or may not prefer).

How does it work? I didn't think a person could combine ca/all/mg in a all in one? Thought something would parcipitate or does the carbon play some role?

 

[tsav87]

How does it work? I didn't think a person could combine ca/all/mg in a all in one? Thought something would parcipitate or does the carbon play some role?

Yes, @Randy Holmes-Farley, how does this work?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, @Randy Holmes-Farley, how does this work?

There have been a number of such products for a long time. Calcium acetate was the most common one, but this is calcium formate, so it provides less organic material per alk and calcium dose. But it works similarly.

here's a description of how these work (article is older so prices are not current):

The Many Methods for Supplementing Calcium and Alkalinity - REEFEDITION
http://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/

One-part balanced additive systems: Calcium Acetate

Calcium acetate is a product that has gotten relatively little publicity despite its apparent ease of use and the commercial availability to aquarists. In some ways it is similar to the combination of limewater and vinegar. When dissolved in water (fresh or salt), you have calcium ions and acetate ions. The acetate is rapidly metabolized by tank organisms to form bicarbonate, carbon dioxide, and water:

CH3CO2– (acetate) + 2 O2 → HCO3– + CO2 + H2O

This equation suggests that pH of such tanks may stay near the low end of normal, because of the excess carbon dioxide, but the practical experience of people using calcium acetate suggests that this is not a big concern.

Calcium acetate will also facilitate the growth of bacteria and the reduction of nutrients in systems, similar to that with folks dosing vinegar or vodka for that purpose. It will also facilitate conversion of nitrate to nitrogen gas (N2) in anoxic regions of live sand and rock by providing the carbon source necessary for the process. The equation below shows the process that could take place:

5 CH3CO2– (acetate) + 8 NO3– → 10 CO2 + 4 N2 + 13 OH– + H2O

One of the sources of calcium acetate available to aquarists is Salifert’s All in One (a product that also contains some strontium, amino acids, and some trace elements). It is a liquid product that can be poured directly into a tank with no immediate concerns about pH. The current version of their commercial product is 250,000-mg/L calcium acetate, so it contains the equivalent of 3,160 meq/L of alkalinity. This product sells in the US for about $45/L. Consequently, it costs about $14 per thousand meq/L of alkalinity. That price makes it very expensive for an aquarium with a large demand for calcium and alkalinity, but the zero equipment cost (unless you automate it with a dosing pump) makes it attractive for small aquaria, especially nano-reef tanks.

I have no information on the purity of the material, or the exact nature of the “trace elements” in it. Everything in the bottle will be delivered to the tank. It poses no unusual safety concerns. The upper limit to how much calcium and alkalinity can be supplied to a tank in this fashion depends on two factors. If the metabolism of acetate is rapid and the dose is very high, oxygen might be depleted. If the conversion is slow then acetate can build up in the tank (not itself a significant concern except perhaps at very high levels where it might confound an alkalinity test). Habib Sekha of Salifert has indicated that using the doses recommended on the bottle will not lead to either of these issues being problematic.

Overdosing is not expected to be an unusual problem, but if one makes significant additions in this fashion, the alkalinity will take time to show up completely in the tank because the acetate takes time to be metabolized. Consequently, I’d wait a day after adding it to measure alkalinity. Calcium measurement won’t be similarly impacted. Tank salinity will not increase over time using calcium acetate.

 

[tsav87]

Thanks Randy!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randy!

You're welcome.

Happy reefing.

 

[tsav87]

@Randy Holmes-Farley, Do you think this product will be able to deliver the appropriate amount of magnesium that it claims to do?