Can algae scrubbers outcompete algae?

[rishma]

for those wanting proof - and this has been repeatable for me over the years:
My tank went through a period of neglect, and I gave up on it for months. When I decided to reboot it, this is what I was facing

I reviewed and found that my scrubbers air pump was dead. I don’t know how long. Could have been weeks or months. I really wasn’t paying attention tot he tank except for adding some food daily for the couple fish in it.

I bought a new air pimp and got the scrubber back online. I made no other changes. This is the tank a month later

The scrubber went through 4 harvests

The display algae significantly reduced and eventually was virtually eliminated

The whole process took just under 3 months. Over the last 2.5 years, I’ve had the algae come back once. And upon review, the air pump (dual outlet) had one outlet not outputting air due to a damaged internal bladder. I replaced the air pump, and over a few weeks, the algae turned pale, disintegrated , and didn’t come back. I would say easily 90-95% reduction / elimination both times from no change other than fixing the scrubber.

That’s very cool.

 

[VintageReefer]

That’s very cool.

On this same tank, many years ago, I used my middle sump section as a refugium. Trigger systems Ruby 30 sump

I grew chaeto very well. The fuge was packed

But. I couldn’t keep hair algae out of the display, despite having low numbers.

I got the scrubber. First, all my chaeto died. Then, the display had an algae outbreak. I was growing hair algae in clumps tight out of the sand. And rock pores. It was worse than ever. I kept harvesting the scrubber. And eventually….it stopped. Instead of new hair algae, existing hair algae started turning white, and died and vanished. And it didnt come back. And eventually, it was virtually gone. This process took 3-4 months.

I grew acros from nugs to colonies and had no coral issues from the scrubber. Only the algae was affected

Sure. I had some issues with burned tips. I was still learning about things. And in retrospect I believe it was from my high alk / low nutrient numbers. But when I saw how the scrubber fixed my system, I knew this was not a snake oil product.

This setup was a scrubber/skimmer combo. No water changes, and no mech filtration. Used 2 part on dosing timers and a bottled trace supplement

 

[kingranch2003]

It’s how they work. And it’s not instantaneous. It takes a few months. The display doesn’t lose the resources. They are just limited.

Phosphate and elements will naturally disperse evenly in the water. If you have one zone constantly up taking them, then more will be drawn from the display trying to “level out”

My scrubber is 1000 par of red 660nm led from a distance of 1”, 18 hours a day ln a reverse schedule, with oxygen pumped in from a high power air pump 24x7, and surface area ideal for algae to cling on and grow from. I grow turf algae - which we all have the spores for in our tank, but displays lack the conditions for It to grow. Other algaes sure. But not what grows in my scrubber. Once you introduce the right conditions, the scrubber will seed itself and grow a unique algae on its own. Ot does of I remove it from the scrubber and put in the display. It can’t survive outside the scrubber

That's extremely interesting that the ATS grows an algae that isn't viable in the display

 

[VintageReefer]

Do find you have less film algae on the glass with a scrubber?

I don’t really have a valid comparison for my systems as I’ve been using the scrubber for 10-11 years. I do still have to scrape film algae twice a week. Would it be more often without the scrubber? Probably but who knows. Every tank is different.

I find for me, has seemingly zero affect on bubble algae. It’s a tougher algae to beat. I hear from people that scrubbers can beat bubble algae but you really need to be aggressive and run exendrd hours, harvest more often, oversize the unit etc

 

[kingranch2003]

I’ve used them multiple times and credit them for helping run successful systems. I see them as a tool and nothing more.

IF they work by stripping EVERYTHING from the water that GHA needs to grow in the display, I wonder what other damage they’re doing by removing that much

Looking at the corals of proven reefs that use an ATS, I'd say no. Are we forgetting the ph boost here? If there is photosynthesis and increased 02 during the time that all tanks take a ph dive, how can this not benefit the corals? Look at the tanks that are successfully running this tech. In large part the displays are algae free and the corals are usually thriving and very healthy.

 

[rtparty]

Looking at the corals of proven reefs that use an ATS, I'd say no. Are we forgetting the ph boost here? If there is photosynthesis and increased 02 during the time that all tanks take a ph dive, how can this not benefit the corals? Look at the tanks that are successfully running this tech. In large part the displays are algae free and the corals are usually thriving and very healthy.

O2 does not increase pH

Do scrubbers pull CO2 from the water, air, or both?

I’ve run multiple scrubbers and none of them increased the pH

 

[kingranch2003]

I use one and it’s been my primary filtration on every tank I’ve run for the last 10 years. I don’t do water changes and I don’t run a skimmer or mech filtration

It doesn’t strip things completely. I do still get occasional gha in my display. But, it’s not out of control and you have to go out of your way to find it. The scrubber helps manage and limit it, but it’s not eliminated.

Week after week I have to pull handfuls of algae from my scrubber, and I have not had to remove algae from the display in months. It clearly grows faster in one area than the other. I keep a very small cleanup crew for a 75g so don’t go citing herbivores on me lol. They don’t touch the gha anyway.

Here's the only cuc member known to constantly consume gha

 

[VintageReefer]

O2 does not increase pH

Do scrubbers pull CO2 from the water, air, or both?

I’ve run multiple scrubbers and none of them increased the pH

Scrubbers add oxygenation

Scrubbers have a small ph increase due to algae consuming carbon dioxide, which makes water less acidic, which causes a ph increase. It happens when photosynthesis is active, when the scrubber leds are on, and it’s effects are more noticeable at night. Typically people notice it in terms of “less of a ph drop at night” instead of calling it a ph increase.

 

[kingranch2003]

O2 does not increase pH

Do scrubbers pull CO2 from the water, air, or both?

I’ve run multiple scrubbers and none of them increased the pH

I never said 02 increased ph. It's part of a process that does though. Just out of curiosity. In your opinion, what does increase ph?

 

[VintageReefer]

Here's the only cuc member known to constantly consume gha

 

[rtparty]

Scrubbers add oxygenation

Scrubbers have a small ph increase due to algae consuming carbon dioxide, which makes water less acidic, which causes a ph increase. It happens when photosynthesis is active, when the scrubber leds are on, and it’s effects are more noticeable at night. Typically people notice it in terms of “less of a ph drop at night” instead of calling it a ph increase.

I’m fully aware of how they work

 

[rtparty]

I never said 02 increased ph. It's part of a process that does though. Just out of curiosity. In your opinion, what does increase ph?

Decreasing the carbonic acid in the water. Ambient CO2 is the largest driver of pH in our systems.

Again, in my situation, I’ve never witnessed a pH increase or a higher low from running scrubbers. Small sample size but that’s been my experience running them

 

[VintageReefer]

I’m fully aware of how they work

Maybe others aren’t

And to be fair you did ask questions about the process and stated you don’t see an increase. My response is directly related to things you asked about, and experienced.

Scrubbers aren’t made for giving ph increase. It’s more of a small beneficial side effect, and how noticeable it is depends on a number of factors

 

[kingranch2003]

Decreasing the carbonic acid in the water. Ambient CO2 is the largest driver of pH in our systems.

Again, in my situation, I’ve never witnessed a pH increase or a higher low from running scrubbers. Small sample size but that’s been my experience running them

I agree that reducing H2C03 can boost and steady ph. Photosynthesis in an otherwise lower ph time frame (lights out) is, I believe, just another way to attack the problem. And ph is just one of several things I believe would be a benefit of using an ATS as PART of the solution, not a replacement for husbandry.
A lot of times, we forget to compare parameters when we're not running it. I'm not saying that's the case with you. I can understand that you would adhere to what you've seen work in your system. I can see your take on it as well.

 

[Imrahilwjz]

An explanation on how two scrubbers can be run on the same system, would be nice, lol.

I have an DIY algae turf scrubber that lives in a tote next to my system and a light in my sump that grows hair algae all around it. Effectively two scrubbers.

Edit: Sorta disagree with myself after some thought. If we're differentiating between a scrubber and refugium, the light in the sump is more like a refugium.

 

[VintageReefer]

I have an DIY algae turf scrubber that lives in a tote next to my system and a light in my sump that grows hair algae all around it. Effectively two scrubbers.

Some peoples systems have heavy needs. And they can get one big scrubber or two smaller ones. It’s essentially the same in the end. As far as cubic inches of area that have competitive advantage over other areas.

 

[JoJosReef]

Shame we don't have aiptasia scrubbers.

 

[kingranch2003]

Shame we don't have aiptasia scrubbers.

 

[kingranch2003]

Shame we don't have aiptasia scrubbers.

Price tag scrubbers also?

 

[Garf]

Shame we don't have aiptasia scrubbers.

But we do. If you can get something to eat them in the display, filefish or something they will just grow somewhere else, like in the overflow. Then someone else will come along and say growing and feeding aiptasia in the overflow stops them growing in the display, sell you some poorly designed overpriced stuff to get the aiptasia in the overflow growing like mad, voila, aiptasia scrubber, simples. The next stage would be to market it, oh I dunno, some blurb about competitive advantage should befuddle folk.