Can Reef Fusion 2 cause elevated aquarium potassium?

[rkpetersen]

I have a 6 month old Reefer 450 with 100g circulating water volume. Over the last 2 months, my potassium has been on the rise and is now >470 ppm on the Salifert test, and confirmed as elevated in the 500 range by samples sent to both Triton and ATI about a month ago (most likely even higher now). However, I am not intentionally dosing potassium, and have never done so with this tank. I test frequently, and previous to 2 months ago, the potassium level varied between 420 and 450 with no particular pattern, which was fine if a bit on the high side.

I've not been alarmed, my livestock are doing well, but this trend can't continue or there will be problems, so I've been considering the possible source. Looking at ingredient lists. Testing for potassium level when possible. First, the things that don't seem to be the source:

RODI water: 0 TDS. No K, per ATI spectroscopy.
Fresh salt water (Reef Crystals): Salifert test for K 410, repeated with same result. ICP-Analysis 398, Triton 374, AWT 401.
Fresh salt water (RPM): Salifert test for K 410, repeated with same result. Triton/ATI pending, but I expect them to come back in the normal range.
Reef Fusion 1: Ingredients listed on label, no K mentioned. Salifert test for K gives low reading.
Reef Trace: Ingredients listed on label, no K mentioned. Salifert test for K gives low reading.
Reef Plus: Ingredients listed on label, K is present. Salifert test for K results equivocal. Note that dosing amount is small (5 ml/day) and less than recommended. Nonetheless, dosing of this has been discontinued for 3 weeks with no decrease in K level yet seen.
Copepods: in seawater. Salifert test for K gives low reading.
Mix of frozen, refrigerated, and pellet fish and coral foods: in fresh saltwater. Salifert test for K 410.
IC-Gel frag glue: large amount on a plug, swirled around and macerated in a cup of fresh saltwater until hardened: Salifert test for K 410.
Reactor media: ChemiPure Blue, RowaPhos, Purigen: Can any of these leak potassium in sufficient amounts to affect levels, or at all? No idea. With my reactor, it's not easy to get a sample of effluent water, unfortunately.

I do 3x 5% water changes a week. My nitrate 1-2, phosphorus/phosphate 4-10/.01-.03.

That brings us to Reef Fusion 2. I am and have been dosing close to the maximum recommended, via a doser, for the last 3 months or so. Specifically, 59 ml/day (recommended max for 100 gallons being 40x100/65 = 61.5 ml/day). This has maintained my alk level very consistently in the 9 - 9.5 range, my calcium at 430-450, and sps coral growth is enthusiastic. I tested Reef Fusion 2 with the Salifert potassium test kit. I realize that this methodology is flawed, doing this test on a freshwater carb/bicarb solution when it's meant to be used on seawater, but I did it anyway. Test result was above the maximum level.

The contents of RF2 are proprietary. A week or two ago, I called SeaChem and spoke to a rep, asked her specifically whether there was enough potassium in this product to produce what I'm seeing. She was a bit evasive about how much or even whether potassium is present (understandably), but did state that it will not increase aquarium potassium with normal use ("or we'd be marketing it that way.")

So, is this product causing me a problem? Am I using too much, or maybe I should be using something else? If so, any recommendations? Or am I barking up the wrong tree and should keep looking (maybe at the reactor media, although I truly doubt any of those is the source of this.)

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can't say how they have designed it or what level of potassium might be in it, but if it is a properly designed two part, it will contain potassium, but not in an amount that will raise it at all (over time).

Just to save my writing time, I'll copy and past a description from one of my articles on how a two part with copper in it might not raise (and might actually lower) copper. Potassium would be the same (holding steady) if designed correctly to offset the potassium drop due to the salinity impacts:

One issue that has confused some reef keepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (let’s call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since copper is elevated in some reef tanks, and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

For example:

You have copper in your aquarium at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.

You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.

Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.

Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

The rise in salinity of these products over time can be very roughly calculated, though there are several reasons why this calculation is only an estimate. For every 1000 meq of alkalinity added in this fashion (and the matching amount of calcium) these products will deliver on the order of 60 grams of other ions to the tank. In a tank with a low calcification demand (defined later to be 18.3 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (0.4 dKH/day)) this effect will raise the salinity by 3 ppt per year (compared to a normal salinity of S ~35). In a high demand tank (defined later to be 219 thousand meq of alkalinity per year in a 100 gallon tank (4.4 dKH/day)), the salinity will rise by 35 ppt in a year, or approximately doubling the salinity. Consequently, the salinity should be monitored closely in using these types of additives, especially in a tank with high calcification rates.

 

[rkpetersen]

Thanks Randy. I understand what you're saying. When adjusted for salinity, this product may have a concentration of potassium (and other ions like copper) at or near nsw, and therefore not the source of the increase. I do however wonder whether this product is indeed properly designed, although you would have to assume so given the company's prominence and longevity in the hobby. Also, if no one else has noticed an issue with it by now, that suggests that it doesn't have one.

Unfortunately that leaves me not much closer to solving this problem.

I was hoping some people would have suggestions as to what two-part they used, and why. I may never determine with certainty whether RF2 is causing my high K, but at this point, I'm inclined to try something else anyway.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Right, I have no way to know how they actually formulate it, but I would say I haven't heard of anyone else using it who had issues with elevated potassium. high potassium is not very common.

 

[rkpetersen]

high potassium is not very common.

I know! That is why this is so weird and frustrating. :confused:

 

[rkpetersen]

Followup:

I met another hobbyist with a similar size tank, similar bioload, and dosing Reef Fusion 1 & 2 in similar amounts as I am to maintain an alk of 9. None of our other additives are the same. He didn't particularly care about potassium levels, but when I reviewed his recent Triton results, his potassium was indeed quite elevated at 499.

I am now virtually certain that dosing Reef Fusion 2 is the cause, despite SeaChem's reputation and the various arguments why this shouldn't be the case. May be time to try a different two part.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Seachem is now pushing super high potassium levels in their new salt mix, so maybe they put a lot in the two part too:

http://www.seachem.com/vibrant-sea.php

 

[rkpetersen]

Wow. So apparently I should be happy that my potassium level is unintentionally around 520-530. ;Bored

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wow. So apparently I should be happy that my potassium level is unintentionally around 520-530. ;Bored

Yes! lol

 

[rkpetersen]

Well, Randy (and anyone else who might be reading), as of today, I am 100% certain that my elevated potassium level was caused by use of Reef Fusion 2 at the high end of the recommended dosage. After switching from RF2 (which contains potassium) to B Ionic 1 (which does not contain potassium) for alkalinity a short while ago, and using the Salifert potassium test kit, today was the first day in literally months that I actually got a reading that wasn't over-range. Maximum reading for this test is 470, today I got a result of 450 ppm, confirmed on repeat testing. I suspect it will drop even further and may eventually require supplementation, which is fine; I would rather deal with that than have an unintended chronically abnormal level.

Summary:

6/14 /17 - Reef Fusion use with timed doser begun. (See first post.) Potassium on this day 410 ppm.
9/02/17 - Potassium first reads > 470 ppm.
Over the following several months, RF2 use decreased to as little as 40 ml/day,
well below the given maximum for 100 gallons circulating water. Potassium stays over 470.
5% water changes done twice a week or more often, with several different salts, ineffective at reducing the potassium level to the normal range.
1/06/18 - Triton labs returns a potassium value of 551. OK, I'm definitely not liking this much. This is the maximum level I got on several ICPOES tests; actual maximum could of course have been much higher.
2/24/18 - RF2 use discontinued, and B Ionic 1 begun. Dosing 1.6x as much volume of B Ionic concentrate as RF2, for equivalent total alk dosed.
5% water changes twice weekly continued. No other changes in supplements. Alkalinity level remains stable at identical level as before the switch.
4/11/18 - Potassium reads 450. This is the very first time in more than 7 months of frequent testing that it has once again returned to the normal range.
Triton sample to be sent this weekend if next Salifert test again a gives normal potassium level.

Has a chronically elevated potassium level caused problems in my tank? I'm not certain. I do know that I have had some unexplained sudden deaths. Now, there will be one less variable for me to be concerned about.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, B-ionic does contain potassium, but it should only be enough to keep the salinity corrections from lowering it. [emoji3]

 

[rkpetersen]

In the 2-part, yes. But according to the labels, and what testing I was able to do, it is not in the alkalinity component. The potassium in the B-Ionic two-part is included with the calcium component, B Ionic 2. This is the difference from Reef Fusion. Neither Reef Fusion 1 (for calcium) or B Ionic 1 (for alkalinity), the 2 components I am currently using, appears to have significant potassium. I have yet to decide if and when I might switch from Reef Fusion 1 to B Ionic 2 for calcium (which would also add potassium back, possibly too much again.)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In the 2-part, yes. But according to the labels, and what testing I was able to do, it is not in the alkalinity component. The potassium in the B-Ionic two-part is included with the calcium component, B Ionic 2. This is the difference from Reef Fusion. Neither Reef Fusion 1 (for calcium) or B Ionic 1 (for alkalinity), the 2 components I am currently using, appears to have significant potassium. I have yet to decide if and when I might switch from Reef Fusion 1 to B Ionic 2 for calcium (which would also add potassium back, possibly too much again.)

Ah, that can certainly be. I assumed you were using both parts. :)

 

[rkpetersen]

Ah, that can certainly be.

Yup. No known potassium going in now, after removing RF2, and the potassium level is dropping. Pretty much excludes some occult potassium source, which was unlikely but as yet unproven.

The question that remains is, if I switch from Reef Fusion 1 to B Ionic 2 for calcium, at equivalent calcium dosage, will the potassium float too high again, or will it level off just about right? Or to put it another way, is the B Ionic two-part better balanced for heavy usage than Reef Fusion two-part?

I suspect I'll have an answer to this question in a few months. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is trivial to design a two part with just enough potassium to do what ESV claims, without having to make judgements about consumption, which ESV B-ionic does not claim to deal with. So I hope they got it right. [emoji23]

 

[reeferfoxx]

I use reef fusion but cannot comment on K levels. That's a number I'm not chasing yet. Curious though, how much of the Ca was being dosed in 24hrs?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Specifically, 59 ml/day (recommended max for 100 gallons being 40x100/65 = 61.5 ml/day).

Nevermind got it. Hmm...

 

[rkpetersen]

Nevermind got it. Hmm...

Yes, hmm. 92g tank + 24g sump. Generously, 16g in rocks and equipment water displacement. A simple calculation made it clear from the outset that proper usage require that I stay below roughly 60 ml RF2 per day. 59 ml/day was my maximum, and I did not keep it there for long, upon suspecting that the two-part component was the problem. But even on eventually bringing it down to 40 ml/day (with corresponding gradual drop in measured alk levels which I and the corals tolerated), it did not cause the potassium level to normalize.

4o ml/day of RF2 was inadequate to keep the alk level from gradually falling as some of my stony corals started to grow faster in response to increased lighting. Kalkwasser was eventually added; as you know, kalk contains no potassium. This kept my alk stable but potassium remained high off the chart. Finally resolved to switch away from RF2; took me awhile to decide to do so and then on which alk to switch over to, because as we all know, in this hobby, change is often bad. But in this case, it appears that change was good and in hindsight long overdue.

 

[DeputyDog95]

So.... I'm 100% certain Reef Fusion was your culprit.

I've been using Reef Fusion for about 2 years. Things were going well initially. Then growth slowed down, monti's dying off, etc etc.. It was kind of weird. The tank is almost exclusively SPS.

I didn't get too worried about it as many things were doing ok. I just chalked it up to "reef tank" :)

Well, I started having a major crash recently. RTN, bleaching, burnt tips etc.. All my numbers (Alk, Ca, Mg, phos, etc) were checking out. I immediately threw in some chemi pure blue as a precaution and sent a sample off for ICP testing.

My K levels? 800! Yikes!

Now the only things I put in the tank are RODI water, Reef Fusion (75ml/day-system volume 112 g), salt water (red sea blue bucket), and food.

I then spent the next three weeks doing two ten-gallon water changes a week and sent off for ICP testing again on the tank water, tap water, RODI water, and a freshly mixed batch of RS blue bucket. I was continuing to dose Reef Fusion.

When I got the next ICP test results back, my K did drop, but only a hundred points. It was still 700, even after changing out more than half the water over that 3 weeks. So clearly it was being reintroduced.

I had initially emailed SeaChem about it and they claimed there no K in their Reef Fusion. I then emailed them again with my ICP results and the person responding said that the first person who responded was wrong and that there was K in Reef Fusion 2. But that the levels shouldn't be so high that it caused that much of a spike over time. He asked for the lot number on the bottle, which I sent, and haven't heard back yet.

Now I'm doing more research online and finding posts like this. I am 100% convinced that it was the Reef Fusion product. I was chatting online with someone in the Neptune forum about how to stir the liquids in the DDR and the conversation switched to Alk and Ca products. At which point he said he got away from the SeaChecm Reef Fusion because of the high K levels. He mentioned something about it being an issue once you started to use a lot of the product on a daily basis.

Sealed it for me. I cleaned my DDR reservoir and the dosing lines with distilled water yesterday and switched to the Red Sea Alk and Ca. I hate switching as I'm having tos start all over again getting it dialed in, but I clearly have no choice.

Now I'm in back in the process of doing two 10-gallon water changes a week again. Long slow process since the red sea bucket, per the ICP test, has about 400ppm of K in it. So with the water changes, I'm only diluting it as I'm reintroducing more K in each time. Ugggh.... Doing one big whopper of a water change would be effective, but I'm a little nervous with the delicate nature of SPS. They've gradually adapted, sort of, to the high K levels, at least until it reached the breaking point, so probably going down gradually is the best practice, right?

 

[JCOLE]

My Acro's are not looking good and fear another crash in my future. ICP came back with very high potassium. I use Reef Fusion 1 and 2. Looks like I will be making a switch.