Can to much bio media be bad?

[Fishlover56]

Last night
i had a random thought i was looking at this canister booster whoch is filled with foams so its like a pre filter but i was think could you fill it up with bio media then thought could to much bio media in your system be a bad thing ir would to much he great for a tank
personal i think more is better wondering what other peoples thoughts are
thanks

 

[AcroNem]

The bad side is if they trap too much debris, which in theory could lead to excess nutrients, but I always overdo it on biomedia when using it.

 

[bbgobie]

Yes, I was running siporax in a zeovit reactor so I could easily shake it out every day. Struggled a lot to keep sps. Started slowly removing it and could see better results

 

[Dj City]

there is no such thing as too much bio media.
No matter what, your beneficial bacteria can only grow to the demand.
If you have 100lbs of bio media and 1 small fish fed every other day, you will only have a small amount of bacteria despite having 100lbs of media.
You absolutely can have not enough media though.

 

[brandon429]

DJ
your rocks sat three years w no fish before oxidizing the waste of more than one fish, overnite, I thought we covered self sustenance of bacteria years ago

we highlighted using your fallow testing how wet surfaces never starve out, but remain able to oxidize ammonia overnite like any other legit fed system.

I used your fallow example three thousand times happily

bacteria in hydrated media are getting fed when aquarists don’t provide any, by natural means in place eons

any surface area under water maintains full bac coverage as long as it’s wet. It’s ok to use extra surface area in reefing if it is kept from accumulation, but fish presence doesn’t change the ability for activated surfaces to stay activated nor does fish presence alter how -much- ammonia a group of rocks or media can oxidize. The degree and presence of surface area is the regulator, not the amount of bacteria. Submerged surfaces keep their full load of bacteria as long as they’re kept wet.

wet surfaces with low surface area= weak ability to carry fish (why can’t I get my QT tank to cycle threads)

wet surfaces with high surface area: strong ability to oxidize, clears 2 ppm fast. *both tanks have the same relative degree of bac coverage on surfaces* but they range in ability to clear 2 ppm due to surface area presentation.

also a testament: removing sand from reef tanks instantly, without ramp down time, causes the rocks to have to take on the full fish bioloading instantly. they handle this because reef tanks with rocks are already using excess surface area, removing some more excess (the sandbed) doesn’t mean rocks run low on surface area. They did not alter their amounts of bacteria, they weren't given time. The rocks were able to immediately handle more bioload without delay; surfaces underwater maintain their full bacterial complement by being wet and exposed to the environment.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, the answer depends on the media and what it does.

If you mean hard bioballs, they can possibly result in elevated nitrate for two reasons, debris accumulation mentioned above (which only matters if it would otherwise be removed from the system) and the fact that you may reduce denitrification elsewhere, such as on sand or rock, by having the nitrification removed from that location, taking with it the possibly elevated nitrate that comes from nitrification in the same location where denitrification can take place.

If you mean a porous media intended for denitrification, then you may drive nitrate too low and would want to monitor nitrate and remove some media if it is lower than you want.

 

[brandon429]

Randy



considering tank current, how can too much aerobic surface area in one place affect denitrification in another place

the sum total measure of nitrate for the system would be masked by competing zones? or would denitrification stop in sump bricks because a second sump plumbed in was running bioballs and it’s all sharing water? i can envision sludge and organic accumulation stopping nitrification / interrupts presentation of s.a. to waste water

 

[Dj City]

You guys are pretty much touching on my point.
No such thing as too much media. It's just a matter of the amount of bac present on/in said media.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy



considering tank current, how can too much aerobic surface area in one place affect denitrification in another place

This is my thought to try to explain why, when so many folks dropped bioballs back in the old days, they saw nitrate decline:

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

Nitrate is an ion that has long dogged aquarists. It is typically formed in aquaria through the digestion of foods, and in many aquaria it builds up and can be difficult to keep at natural levels. In the past, many aquarists performed water changes with nitrate reduction as one of the primary...

www.reefedition.com

Filters Designed To Facilitate The Nitrogen Cycle.

Filters such as trickle filters using traditional bioballs do a fine job of processing ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, but do nothing with the nitrate. It is often non-intuitive to many aquarists, but removing such a filter altogether may actually help reduce nitrate. Consequently, slowly removing them and allowing more of the nitrogen processing to take place on and in the live rock and sand can be beneficial.

It is not that any less nitrate is produced when such a filter is removed, it is a question of what happens to the nitrate after it is produced. When nitrate is produced on the surface of impermeable media such as bioballs, it mixes into the entire water column, and then has to find its way, by diffusion, to the places where it may be reduced (inside of live rock and sand, for instance).

If it is produced on the surface of live rock or sand, then the local concentration of nitrate is higher there than in the first case above, and it is more likely to diffuse into the rock and sand to be reduced to N2.

In a reef aquarium with adequate live rock, there is little use for a trickle filter, so in general they can be safely removed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You guys are pretty much touching on my point.
No such thing as too much media. It's just a matter of the amount of bac present on/in said media.

I'm not saying that lol

 

[Reef.]

This is my thought to try to explain why, when so many folks dropped bioballs back in the old days, they saw nitrate decline:

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

Nitrate is an ion that has long dogged aquarists. It is typically formed in aquaria through the digestion of foods, and in many aquaria it builds up and can be difficult to keep at natural levels. In the past, many aquarists performed water changes with nitrate reduction as one of the primary...

www.reefedition.com

Filters Designed To Facilitate The Nitrogen Cycle.

Filters such as trickle filters using traditional bioballs do a fine job of processing ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, but do nothing with the nitrate. It is often non-intuitive to many aquarists, but removing such a filter altogether may actually help reduce nitrate. Consequently, slowly removing them and allowing more of the nitrogen processing to take place on and in the live rock and sand can be beneficial.

It is not that any less nitrate is produced when such a filter is removed, it is a question of what happens to the nitrate after it is produced. When nitrate is produced on the surface of impermeable media such as bioballs, it mixes into the entire water column, and then has to find its way, by diffusion, to the places where it may be reduced (inside of live rock and sand, for instance).

If it is produced on the surface of live rock or sand, then the local concentration of nitrate is higher there than in the first case above, and it is more likely to diffuse into the rock and sand to be reduced to N2.

In a reef aquarium with adequate live rock, there is little use for a trickle filter, so in general they can be safely removed.

@Randy Holmes-Farley just read the above link, can you explain what you mean by this please, as I thought dinos come about because of a lack of nitrates and PO4?

Elevated nitrate is often associated with algae, and indeed the growth of algae is often spurred by excess nutrients, including nitrate. The same can be said for other potential pests in aquaria, such as dinoflagellates.