Can we discuss this?

[clowns101]

This is a pretty controversial topic, if you want to keep reading go ahead, I hope the thread does not get deleted due to it's content, so please, hear me out on this and let's see what we come to in agreement with. Warning, this is a VERY controversial topic.

I consider myself a Christian. I go to church, believe in God, follow his word to the best of my abilities, and try my best to follow his teachings and stay on the right path. However, I often find myself questioning something that confuses me greatly.

My mind thinks through issues using the scientific process. Religion and science tend to cross many paths that disagree, evolution is what I'm referring to. The bible does not teach evolution and I always believed that evolution did not occur. However, there are so many things to support it's happening, I have a hard time not believing it. I mean, I guess it's similar to believing in God, I have the faith that God exsist. I also have the faith in me that evolution could have occurred. So I'm mentally confused as to what to believe.

The way I have always thought about Religion vs. Bible vs. Evolution is the earth has been reborn time after time in order to create what God finally viewed as the "perfect" society. I may be way wrong on this, but it is the most logical explanation I can mentally come up with. I know I am not supposed to question things like this, but with the way I mentally process things, I can't help it. I do believe that Adam and Eve were created and alive at one point in time. I do believe God created them, but I do believe God created dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures. There is bone evidence that they have walked on this earth, then instantly wiped out, I have always thought possible that God would wipe them out if he didn't agree with what was occurring.

So is this even a possible explanation? What do I need to do other than just live with it? I plan to go into a science career as an adult, and I don't want my job and religion to interfere with each other causing me to give one of the two up.

What are your theories, ideas, thoughts, etc. to what I'm talking about? I would like to know them so I can bring myself peace of mind, cause this has been bothering me ever since I was aware of the Gigantopithecus findings, and more recently, the program that aired on TV "mermaids, the body found". Nothing matches up in my mind, I may be viewing it wrong, but non of my friends or family can describe it to make it make since, your all welcome to helping me...

Thanks

 

[mfdrookie516]

I've often thought of things like this. I grew up in a Christian family, and have always believed in God and tried my best to be a faithful follower (granted, there have been times when I've veered off course). My interpretation of things is that 'evolution', as scientists refer to it, happened as God was 'fine tuning' things to his liking. He saw things and corrected them. I would really like to hear what David has to say about this, as I've never had the opportunity to ask a pastor/reverend/preacher/etc.

 

[clowns101]

I've often thought of things like this. I grew up in a Christian family, and have always believed in God and tried my best to be a faithful follower (granted, there have been times when I've veered off course). My interpretation of things is that 'evolution', as scientists refer to it, happened as God was 'fine tuning' things to his liking. He saw things and corrected them. I would really like to hear what David has to say about this, as I've never had the opportunity to ask a pastor/reverend/preacher/etc.

So we are thinking on similar paths! lol

And I as well would like to hear what he has to say, I have personally been afraid to ask a pastor about this because many of them would take offence to it.

 

[mfdrookie516]

I can see that... I've never really felt like I'd offend because I'm not questioning the bible in any way... only trying to make sense of why science can prove certain things that aren't mentioned in the bible. Obviously, regardless of having proof, I still have faith. There are numerous religions that each interpret the bible in a different way. I've often wondered if the beliefs I have are the way things actually happened. There are so many religions, and each person usually believes that their religion is correct. I've always just felt that as long as I'm doing everything I can to follow what I've been taught, I'm doing what God would want me to do. After all, that's what faith is all about. JMO of course.

 

[chort55]

I'm not very religious, I believe, but I find the church setting to not be for me (haven't been in probably 10-15 years).... but IMO theres really only 1 way the chicken could have came before the egg.... and theres really still only one way the egg could have came before the chicken ;)

Sure evolution can somewhat be proved scientifically (although theres no real begining, I mean what happened earth evolved from a clouds fart, and whatever the 1st living thing on earth was just evolved from dirt.... really you have to be a fool to believe that lol), and the bible really has no super evidence other then someone said god created everything.... but I could buy the evolution is god fine tuning things theory more then just an evolutionary theory for sure.

 

[toejam]

[video=youtube;TPAmQjI1Sog]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPAmQjI1Sog[/video]

 

[Ace25]

This sums up my views...

[video=youtube;CzSMC5rWvos]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos[/video]

 

[Cubbies]

iI believe in God and I know he's there when I need him. That's as far as I go. I grew up in a Christian household as well but don't believe in Churches now that I'm grown.

 

[BarbH]

Definitly not a question with an easy and direct answer ;) Growing up I was not raised in a family that was considered to be religious both of my parents are agnostic. While I was going through highschool evolution was taught to us as fact and that it was the only way, not sure what it is like in today's school system since it has been a good 15 years or so. I myself came to a relationship with Christ during my senior year of highschool. Mfdrookie I do think that your explaination makes sense although I would say that the fine tuning is part of his plan. Definitly would be interested if David has any thoughts to add to this. Definitly something to think over and not easy to answer. I guess that my final thoughts is that I do believe that God has a plan in everything that He does, some of these things we do have some understanding of but than there are somethings that we are not going to have answers for. Definitly a good question and one that I have found difficult in answering.

 

[KJAG]

My take, for what its worth, without getting too deep: there's simply too much evidence that Jesus existed, and was who he claimed to be, to not believe in God. How could an ordinary man walking around for a few years making wild claims have such an impact 2000 years later. The apostles' death might be the most significant proof that Jesus was who he claimed to be. Why would the apostles, (almost all of them murdered for their teachings after Jesus' death)all be willing to die for their cause, unless they witnessed something extremely gnarly.These events are historically recorded as fact. Why is there good and evil if God and Satan dont exist. Evolution and the age of the earth? Trivial scientific evidence in the face of some extremely detailed histology on Jesus' life in my opinion. Science= a test of faith from God. Nice thread by the way.

 

[jhawkor]

My take, for what its worth, without getting too deep: there's simply too much evidence that Jesus existed, and was who he claimed to be, to not believe in God. How could an ordinary man walking around for a few years making wild claims have such an impact 2000 years later. The apostles' death might be the most significant proof that Jesus was who he claimed to be. Why would the apostles, (almost all of them murdered for their teachings after Jesus' death)all be willing to die for their cause, unless they witnessed something extremely gnarly.These events are historically recorded as fact. Why is there good and evil if God and Satan dont exist. Evolution and the age of the earth? Trivial scientific evidence in the face of some extremely detailed histology on Jesus' life in my opinion. Science= a test of faith from God. Nice thread by the way.

None of Jesus' claimed miracles are recorded as fact. No offense, but to say the workings of Jesus is supported by fact, and then to call the evidence of evolution trivial, is just silly.

 

[fraghunter]

If you just read the bible and actually pay attention a couple of things should stand out god not a human like Jesus but think more along the lines of the Budapest religion an energy source of life and spirituality. Also god created light on the 3rd day so how long was a day before that? Prior 1 day could have been a million years. Then take into consideration that when God created the earths he created them to be middle aged and mature. And lastly god tests your faith everyday and don't feel bad because even mother Teresa question her faith and had trouble believing there was a god at times because of all the paint and suffer she saw but on her death bed she said that the tests of faith and her questioning of gods existing made her a stronger believer at the end as she was ready to meet her maker.

I am somewhat of a church goer a roman Catholic apostle a stronger believer in God but most of all a student of all religions and a constant explorer of the facts and the truth that will make my mind stronger.

I believe in both eveloution and God.

Also please remember the bible your pastor and church are all written preached and structured by man which make mistakes and its their interpretation of what they heard and read.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Steelerfan747]

My take, for what its worth, without getting too deep: there's simply too much evidence that Jesus existed, and was who he claimed to be, to not believe in God. How could an ordinary man walking around for a few years making wild claims have such an impact 2000 years later. The apostles' death might be the most significant proof that Jesus was who he claimed to be. Why would the apostles, (almost all of them murdered for their teachings after Jesus' death)all be willing to die for their cause, unless they witnessed something extremely gnarly.These events are historically recorded as fact. Why is there good and evil if God and Satan dont exist. Evolution and the age of the earth? Trivial scientific evidence in the face of some extremely detailed histology on Jesus' life in my opinion. Science= a test of faith from God. Nice thread by the way.

Amen. My point exactly. No one makes a big deal about Buddha or Allah, heck people are even fast to believe the devil exists but trends to bark or feel offended at the name of Jesus. Why is that? I feel the main reason is, when you accept Jesus you also have to accept the fact that we are sinners (and yes we All are guys even us Christians) and people font like to admit that because then they have to come face to face with the fact that half the things they are doing and in some of our cases all the things we are doing are wrong and We not the world or anyone else but We need to change.
For anyone imo to think that this world was not created by God but rather an explosion in space just does not make sense. I have seen and heard of many explosions and have yet to se anything good come out of it let alone be created out of it.

 

[Poseidon]

I have my own views on this one, but I have simplified it down to this:

"I will treat YOU with dignity and respect, regardless of YOUR religious views, in turn I expect you to treat me with equal dignity and respect, with MY choice to not support or believe in YOUR religious views."

I am a scientist by nature, I want to know WHY, religion fails to explain MANY things. I would say that at points in history Religion HAMPERED human development and progress. There are many examples of this, "the world is flat", "the sun moves around the earth", "Women can not be priests"... take these views of RELIGION and compare them to what science has been able to accomplish in the last 200 or so years since a ruling Religious Monarchy was tossed out as the ultimate authority. There are thousands of years of human history, where people, basically the same as you and me, were unable to accomplish what we have in the last couple centuries, what changed?

An educated mind has to at the very least question the manmade RELIGION when looking at empirical data. That being said, having FAITH that there is a God, and that there is more to life after our human form ceases to exist, is a choice for the individual to make., not an organization made by men, and subject to the same bias and flaws as any man is.

 

[Steelerfan747]

None of Jesus' claimed miracles are recorded as fact. No offense, but to say the workings of Jesus is supported by fact, and then to call the evidence of evolution trivial, is just silly.

I think what he meant is 100%, there is no proof of evolution as they are all still considered theories yet out is known as fact that 100% Jesus did exist and his miracles were acknowledged by believers and non believers alike.

For God so loved the world that he Gave his only son so that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life. Jesus died for us while we were still sinners, He died for all of us even those who do not believe in him.

 

[shred5]

Evolution is happening right now so how can anyone not beleive in evolution.. I do believe in God I just think allot is lost in translation of the bible... A day to them could have meant something totally different... I also think some of the bible is stories meant to tech a lesson more than something that actually happened. Again I think things have been changed or lost in translation over the years.

 

[cdness]

This is a difficult subject for me as well but I have found a way to allow both in and be acceptable. I do believe in God and Jesus and the teachings of the bible. I do believe the teachings did happen and believe there will be a place for me when I leave this world.

However when it comes to evolution, many people see it as an alternative to the teachings of the bible. I on the other hand see them as complimenting each other. God created mankind in his image, but in this process He created us with a brain and the ability to grow and learn as people. This is where Science itself came from so we can learn about all of the parts of His creation. Instead of trying to disprove each, embrace them both as if Evolution does exist, He created that too...

 

[Steelerfan747]

I have my own views on this one, but I have simplified it down to this:

"I will treat YOU with dignity and respect, regardless of YOUR religious views, in turn I expect you to treat me with equal dignity and respect, with MY choice to not support or believe in YOUR religious views."

I am a scientist by nature, I want to know WHY, religion fails to explain MANY things. I would say that at points in history Religion HAMPERED human development and progress. There are many examples of this, "the world is flat", "the sun moves around the earth", "Women can not be priests"... take these views of RELIGION and compare them to what science has been able to accomplish in the last 200 or so years since a ruling Religious Monarchy was tossed out as the ultimate authority. There are thousands of years of human history, where people, basically the same as you and me, were unable to accomplish what we have in the last couple centuries, what changed?

An educated mind has to at the very least question the manmade RELIGION when looking at empirical data. That being said, having FAITH that there is a God, and that there is more to life after our human form ceases to exist, is a choice for the individual to make., not an organization made by men, and subject to the same bias and flaws as any man is.

Please do not accept this with anything but dignity and respect. I am not someone who forces Christianity on anyone but I do wish for everyone to have the oportunity at the knowledge I have (If you felt you had the cure for cancer would you not share it with the world). Christianity is not a religion but a faith in Jesus Christ and if you choose not to follow in my faith then I respect your decision. I repect your being a scientist and your beliefs but I can guaranty you that the bible in no place states that the world is flat or that the sun rotates around the earth.

I will leave you with one thing, lets just say for argument sake that you are right and I am wrong, then both you and I will end up in the same place. You will have helped humanity with your scientific knowledge and I will have helped out by sharing my beliefs and if nothing else having been a better person for it ( I am not the man I wish to be but Thank God I am not the man I used to be).

Now on the flip side, let's just say I am right and you are wrong. I know where I will end up.

God Bless you all now lets get back to reefing :)

 

[caudill187]

In my understanding, there is no real conflict between the bible and science, if both are taken in the proper context. For example, with the evolution vs. creation question, both can be valid as Darwin did not explain the origin of life and physics (starting a long time ago with Einstein) does not hold that time is constant. Both views suggest the ultimate truth....fingers that point to the moon. The problem is that we confuse the finger that is pointing with the moon itself. We confuse metaphor with an ultimately unknowable reality. Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed and many other historical teachers have tried to point this out but people have distorted these teaching in horrendous ways, making idols of their personal beliefs rather than god itself, separating the human race into artificial groups and justifying atrocity that continues to this day.

Throughout history, there has never been a coherent explanation of the universe that does not include a power greater than Man. Call it nature, call it God, call it intelligent design, call it the ground of being.....call it whatever you want. Not only this, but as one who has come to know the psychological lives of countless men, there is no true peace of mind without some sort of "higher power"....even if you don't call it God (I would conclude that the ultimate humility and love which has been called God doesn't care what I call it). Even happy atheists worship love, honesty, integrity, or something of the like. The unhappy ones worship money, other people, etc..My humble opinion is...if it works for you, keep believing and doing as you are.....

 

[cparka23]

On the topic of reconciling science and religion, I was once given this answer by an evolutionary biologist (not saying whether I agree or disagree with it). The creation account of Genesis states that it occurred over the course of 6 days. By a literal interpretation, that would mean each day is a 24-hours. If the creation account is an allegory, however, we allow ourselves the chance to interpret the "days" as aeons of time.

Now, interpreting the Bible as a figurative text raises a whole host of questions -- How much of the Bible is figurative/literal? Which things are open to interpretation? etc. I will spare you my own dogma and say that these are personal beliefs. There is disagreement among Christians on this subject, and it has contributed to the formation of different denominations.