Can you add a clownfish with no ammonia and high nitrites?

[brandon429]

Fish in cycle.... this is 2020 nobody has ammonia control issues


They have crypto issues.

Anti fish in cyclers argue for the wrong basis, reduces credibility.

Post me any thread on any forum where animals are showing ammonia poisoning, along with test reads. No more authoritative commentary about fish-in until we get those links

We're never going to get the links. You will find color tube tests causing 100% of the concern. Dr Reefs thread shows what % of bottle bac does not work per its directions. You have a 99.99% of a quick cycle using any bottle bac you want, his thread isn't a collection of fails and he bought what we all buy regarding common bottle bac

But in this forum, literally every thread assumes the bac didn't work

Isn't the degree of conflicting mindsets amazing, not being required to work within the confines of work threads allows people to develop all kinds of notions


Discerning a reef start date isn't about breaking rules its about applying absolute confidence to your reef day one, which makes it live longer
(Not that day one is the day for fish, unless that's specially required)

It's simply knowing when you can start that matters... we've whittled away nitrite from factoring, so we're closer to consistency in measure

We won't get tricked into re buying bottle bac, and led by the nose from $9 test kits if we either consider clicking and reading work threads or making new ones, if new proofs are needed.

 

[Jeffcb]

This man just denounced science...?

Do you have anything to add to a discussion about this, or are we just spreading misinformation around for the new people to read and fall victim to, because people thought it was a good idea to cycle tanks with live fish in the 1960s?

Anyone with 10% understanding of the nitrogen cycle knows, for a fact, that fish are not necessary to cycle an aquarium, and that adding fish during this process is inhumane and neglectful.

Just throw food in the tank for a month and it cycles... adding fish shows impatiance, neglect, inexperience, carelessness, and ignorance of the nitrogen cycle - and in some cases, failure to accept research and advancements in reefkeeping understanding versus what their LFS told them to do over 50 years ago.

Sorry, but cycling with fish does not make you an OG oldschool reefer, it makes you a BAD caretaker.

nope

 

[Cell]

I think another clarification on what exactly the term, "fish in cycle" means here. Here, we are talking adding bottled bacteria and a fish, not just a fish on day 1 with no bacteria supplement...correct?

 

[Jeffcb]

I think another clarification on what exactly the term, "fish in cycle" means here. Here, we are talking adding bottled bacteria and a fish, not just a fish on day 1 with no bacteria supplement...correct?

I don't remember anymore lol. I just like cycle with clowns. Much easier to catch than a damsel. Last tank I did both bottle and fish.

 

[msavoy]

page 2 the OP politely excused him/herself from the conversation...

Haha no I’m still here soaking in all the information. It’s very conflicting information for sure and everyone seems to have a different answer. Like one person here said I think we take the information we receive and decide what we’ll do, everyone will try something different. It’s a learning process and we’re going to make mistakes along the way and that’s how we learn. Thanks so much for all the info guys, this forum is amazing for getting advice for people just getting started.

 

[brandon429]

Freedom to do post battle within hearty reason is the reason reef2reef is evolving practices faster than other sites

In fact, banstick heavy sites are as slow as molasses

it seems to me that reef2reefs philosophy on typed battle is if two posters feel this passionate about something and aren’t harming each other what’s the harm in fifteen hundred word diatribes

maybe something new or improved might result and at the very least reading popcorn


anything typed that’s either crazy or untrue will fall out of practice, set straight by scientist readers...market checked.


one thing is certain, there are so many fish + bottle bac threads set up quickly that basic ability to control ammonia seems inherent in today’s market.

when the rules say you can start a reef tank vs when people are actually starting them is fascinating to study.


any of this talk can and did get people banned at other sites, simple freedom to do battle to hone practice is rare.


if polled before reading this, anyone would select not possible. You cannot do an entire dry start reef with anemone and eight fish and ten corals. reality: retail products arranged correctly allow it.

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

that doesn’t mean everyone should, just like you should not peg out a sport bike on the interstate even though you can. It serves as decent proof that bottle bac preps work, and I cannot recall one time they did not work other than Brightwell mixes which are not showing strong ammonia movement across posts, they seem slower than the rest. I’ve never seen a boosted cycle (uses bottle bac from any brand plus feed) take longer than a cycling chart shows, universally they’re done by then. Awaiting a post showing otherwise using accurate ammonia testing.

in Ike’s tank one zip from common bottle bac set the filtration quickly, it was the food webs and fish disease supports that needed boosting, he updates and getting to see the arc of that system shows if basic filtration from a bottle is impossible.

 

[Jeffcb]

Freedom to do post battle within hearty reason is the reason reef2reef is evolving practices faster than other sites

In fact, banstick heavy sites are as slow as molasses

it seems to me that reef2reefs philosophy on typed battle is if two posters feel this passionate about something and aren’t harming each other what’s the harm in fifteen hundred word diatribes

maybe something new or improved might result and at the very least reading popcorn


anything typed that’s either crazy or untrue will fall out of practice, set straight by scientist readers...market checked.


one thing is certain, there are so many fish + bottle bac threads set up quickly that basic ability to control ammonia seems inherent in today’s market.

when the rules say you can start a reef tank vs when people are actually starting them is fascinating to study.


any of this talk can and did get people banned at other sites, simple freedom to do battle to hone practice is rare.


if polled before reading this, anyone would select not possible. You cannot do an entire dry start reef with anemone and eight fish and ten corals. reality: retail products arranged correctly allow it.

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

that doesn’t mean everyone should, just like you should not peg out a sport bike on the interstate even though you can. It serves as decent proof that bottle bac preps work, and I cannot recall one time they did not work other than Brightwell mixes which are not showing strong ammonia movement across posts, they seem slower than the rest. I’ve never seen a boosted cycle (uses bottle bac from any brand plus feed) take longer than a cycling chart shows, universally they’re done by then. Awaiting a post showing otherwise using accurate ammonia testing.

in Ike’s tank one zip from common bottle bac set the filtration quickly, it was the food webs and fish disease supports that needed boosting, he updates and getting to see the arc of that system shows if basic filtration from a bottle is impossible.

Well first of all its a fish not a dog. The way I look at it my fish is better off in my tank with a little ammonia in it than out on some natural reef were a Grouper or a Rockfish is going to suck it in and eat it. Most fish on a reef end up getting eaten.

Matter of fact I think I am going to go eat a fish now. One I caught with a hook. I bet that really hurt, having a hook in ones lip and getting dragged on a boat and then getting thrown in a cold ice box. Humm.

I did release the Marlin in my picture. I took us about 3 or 4 minutes to revive it. He finally came too and swam off.

Folks have been cycling tanks with fish as long as I can remember.

Bottle of bac, a few crabs, a fish.......................... Boom

 

[brandon429]

I'm 100% sure the hobby does not want to gravitate towards adding bacteria unverified, plus fish and taking a chance


Our focus is what measure, on which device makes an undebatable start date for tanks where nobody is in trouble for rushing and everyone benefits from changes in technology that shorten wait times. The old rule was zero nitrite zero ammonia and some nitrate, the newer focus is on verifying only ammonia control before beginning. This will weed out dead bottle bac and slower strains from burning fish and getting symptoms of burnt fish, but allow less testing variance focusing on the only aspect of cycling that causes harm. Nh3 is literally the only focus in today's cycling. Aquarists don't prevent cycles even with variance in pH, temp, salinity tank to tank these bacteria aren't delicate they're super hardy.

Knowing that for sure an arrangement can support life with some sort of verification is what most of the hobby wants, and if that start time comes fast then no griping, proofs of being ready are evolving

 

[Jeffcb]

I'm 100% sure the hobby does not want to gravitate towards adding bacteria unverified, plus fish and taking a chance


Our focus is what measure, on which device makes an undebatable start date for tanks where nobody is in trouble for rushing and everyone benefits from changes in technology that shorten wait times. The old rule was zero nitrite zero ammonia and some nitrate, the newer focus is on verifying only ammonia control before beginning. This will weed out dead bottle bac and slower strains from burning fish and getting symptoms of burnt fish, but allow less testing variance focusing on the only aspect of cycling that causes harm. Nh3 is literally the only focus in today's cycling. Aquarists don't prevent cycles even with variance in pH, temp, salinity tank to tank these bacteria aren't delicate they're super hardy.

Knowing that for sure an arrangement can support life with some sort of verification is what most of the hobby wants, and if that start time comes fast then no griping, proofs of being ready are evolving

I prefer nature. No Chemicals and test strips. Remember in a closed environment, some of the things you put in you may not ba able to take out. Many do.

 

[Fish_Sticks]

Matter of fact I think I am going to go eat a fish now. One I caught with a hook. I bet that really hurt, having a hook in ones lip and getting dragged on a boat and then getting thrown in a cold ice box. Humm.

Well first of all its a fish not a dog. The way I look at it my fish is better off in my tank with a little ammonia in it than out on some natural reef were a Grouper or a Rockfish is going to suck it in and eat it. Most fish on a reef end up getting eaten.

Yikes...

This isn't fishing m8.

This is fishkeeping.

 

[JSkeleton]

So 2 years later, I'm curious what OP ended up doing after this crazy debate in this thread LOL

I've been researching the topic tons as my own tank is cycling, nitrites are high but ammonia is quite low and should be gone soon. LFS has a great sale on fish I want (Clowns). Upon research it seems there's substantial studies indicating that Nitrites are not toxic at lower amounts in saltwater as they would in freshwater, due to the chloride outcompeting the nitrites. That said, I'm still hesitant to risk it.

 

[Krak-A-Pat]

So 2 years later, I'm curious what OP ended up doing after this crazy debate in this thread LOL

I've been researching the topic tons as my own tank is cycling, nitrites are high but ammonia is quite low and should be gone soon. LFS has a great sale on fish I want (Clowns). Upon research it seems there's substantial studies indicating that Nitrites are not toxic at lower amounts in saltwater as they would in freshwater, due to the chloride outcompeting the nitrites. That said, I'm still hesitant to risk it.

so two years later from your post!, what did you end up doing? I am cycling right now. used Dr. Tims and his guide says to add fish on day 9. I am at day 14 and still dont have fish. my Rites are around 7-10ppm and Rates are about 35. I just did a 10% water change this morning and will monitor for another day or 2 but I feel it is ok to add some clowns here in another day or two. But may just end up waiting till Im lower on those values and closer to 0. As much as I want to have fish in the tank I want corals even more, and if I wouldn't add corals in these conditions I don't like thinking about adding fish. No need to cause unneeded stress for those little fellas.

 

[Baby Damsel 219]

So I’ve been cycling my tanks now for 2 weeks, it’s 40 gallons. I added Fritz nitrifying bacteria around 1 week ago. At the beginning I had a bit of ammonia and no nitrites. Now I have very low levels of ammonia and high levels of nitrite. I was reading that nitrite is not really harmful to saltwater fish and it’s more ammonia that you need to worry about. Do you think the dangerous part of the cycling process is over and I could add one clownfish. Or would you recommend I wait a bit longer until nitrite levels are also low. Thanks for your help.

Do a huge water change by using Chemi-pure. If you don't have macro algae add some. They love high nitrates and will grow very nicely in your tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do a huge water change by using Chemi-pure. If you don't have macro algae add some. They love high nitrates and will grow very nicely in your tank.

Why do you recommend a huge water change? And what is a water change "by using Chemipure"?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

so two years later from your post!, what did you end up doing? I am cycling right now. used Dr. Tims and his guide says to add fish on day 9. I am at day 14 and still dont have fish. my Rites are around 7-10ppm and Rates are about 35. I just did a 10% water change this morning and will monitor for another day or 2 but I feel it is ok to add some clowns here in another day or two. But may just end up waiting till Im lower on those values and closer to 0. As much as I want to have fish in the tank I want corals even more, and if I wouldn't add corals in these conditions I don't like thinking about adding fish. No need to cause unneeded stress for those little fellas.

FWIW, the nitrate values are not accurate with large amounts of nitrite (assuming the nitrate test is accurate)..

 

[Baby Damsel 219]

A water change is when you remove old water full of nitrates and add new saltwater to lower the nitrate numbers.

 

[Baby Damsel 219]

But if you can't do that then buy Chemi Pure to remove for you instead of doing a water change.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, IMO that's doomed to fail since neither chemipure nor any other material can directly bind nitrate from seawater.

The nitrate is also not nearly as high as noted and may be zero, so I would not assume an ordinary water change is needed.

 

[Cthulukelele]

Nitrate readings even with small readable nitrite in the water are inaccurate. API ammonia tests regularly read false positives. Even a year out in my tank full of thriving life I'd get an occasional reading on the api kit that my ammonia was at the 2nd or 3rd rung on the test kit. I only tested it out of curiosity. This is an old thread with antiquated info.

 

[Freenow54]

So I’ve been cycling my tanks now for 2 weeks, it’s 40 gallons. I added Fritz nitrifying bacteria around 1 week ago. At the beginning I had a bit of ammonia and no nitrites. Now I have very low levels of ammonia and high levels of nitrite. I was reading that nitrite is not really harmful to saltwater fish and it’s more ammonia that you need to worry about. Do you think the dangerous part of the cycling process is over and I could add one clownfish. Or would you recommend I wait a bit longer until nitrite levels are also low. Thanks for your help.

I would be patient and wait. However Clowns are VERY tough fish.can tolerate a lot of abuse