Can you take a peek and read this result?

[Neptune 555]

Ok this is driving me nuts! Maybe Santa will bring me a Hanna checker BUT until then what do you read as the phosphate result? My established 10 year old 180 reef just hit the ugly phase again of Cyanobacteria and hair algae… I have not dealt w this in soooo long! Is high phosphate the culprit?

I feed heavy always have - follow Paul B and give live clams + frozen + sea weed. I use a rodi system when I make salt. I have a refugium w chaeto, filter socks change every few days. I did notice my cuc had thinned out - adding cuc.

2 changes recently - 1. I started changing 80 gallons of water once a month (it is as much work to do 20 gallons as 80 so I go big) 2. I started adding in pods and phyto to my tank from algae barn 6 months ago…

 

[brandon429]

adding a no disease prep cuc is a huge, huge biosecurity risk to that $$ system that risks killing all your fish.

I vote for @Paul B to fix this issue for you live time here, since you're copying his feeding method. I directly advise adding no animals or wet stock from any other system until they're fallow prepped. there are 20+ instantly linkable/searchable threads where a reactive addition killed all/most of someone's fish.

 

[therootcause]

When I read these results I hold the vial in front of the card and look through the side of the vile to the colors underneath. If one of the colors disappears (because it is the same as the color in the vial) I accept that as the reading.

 

[brandon429]

your phosphate is absolutely not the cause here. it is possible and common to reef for 20 years having never used the kit at all. it's a fad, the chasing of nitrate and phosphate.

your lighting is overdriven for that setup, and for the continual inputs of heavy protein into the system. those corals can benefit on less light intensity and that is the first step in offsetting that invasion, let's see how Paul manages it for you.

 

[nereefpat]

adding a no disease prep cuc is a huge, huge biosecurity risk to that $$ system that risks killing all your fish.

I vote for @Paul B to fix this issue for you live time here, since you're copying his feeding method. I directly advise adding no animals or wet stock from any other system until they're fallow prepped. there are 20+ instantly linkable/searchable threads where a reactive addition killed all/most of someone's fish.

What in the world does that have to do with high phosphate and algae issues? There are places to buy clean up crew from fishless systems, like reefcleaners.

your phosphate is absolutely not the cause here.

High phosphate doesn't cause algae?

 

[nereefpat]

Ok this is driving me nuts! Maybe Santa will bring me a Hanna checker BUT until then what do you read as the phosphate result? My established 10 year old 180 reef just hit the ugly phase again of Cyanobacteria and hair algae… I have not dealt w this in soooo long! Is high phosphate the culprit?

I see high phosphate levels, according to that kit. Any green would mean the phosphate is >0.25 ppm, which is about 10x higher than I would like.

 

[Reefer911]

I was told to look down through the top of the vial to get the color reading, not through the side. Try that and see if it looks more definitive

 

[Neptune 555]

adding a no disease prep cuc is a huge, huge biosecurity risk to that $$ system that risks killing all your fish.

I vote for @Paul B to fix this issue for you live time here, since you're copying his feeding method. I directly advise adding no animals or wet stock from any other system until they're fallow prepped. there are 20+ instantly linkable/searchable threads where a reactive addition killed all/most of someone's fish.

I did follow the no ich Tank Transfer method for 15 years - nearly drove me crazy. I had multiple fishtanks spread out across my basement b/c of ich jumping tanks... and always a hospital tank ready. SADLY or maybe not... ich entered my tank with my mandarin (hence the adding pods and phyto) and I about had a nervous breakdown. My blue tang recovered and no other fish was affected. I now live w/ ich and with a 180 DT and am not turning back. Yes lets not start the debate again here... but I also think since I crossed the chasm and I am doing ich management that I don't read the disease threads... and never even posted back that my fish all lived after the ich outbreak. I do vote that older tanks have some stability that new sterile tanks do not have. Photo from years before the uglies... same fish tho : )

 

[Reefer911]

Not to hijack the thread but do you run UV? Or are you strictly following Paul’s immunity protocol?

 

[brandon429]

That's not a hijack it's a great question/agreed/UV is a big saver for large reefs. good point Reefer911.



Neptune:
that's your tank where you shape all the feedback. we don't get to know if you followed rules correctly for prep, if you omit that, we'd never know, because you shape all feedback.

when we give advise to others, where we don't control their variables (and especially their feedback) and when $3K of someone elses fish money is on the line, you recommend what works safely for others, and is published, and comes from someone who spends all day long managing other's fish tanks where open/unfiltered feedback determines % reliability.

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

there are no published articles for the alternative because that kills people's setups.

and, its not possible to harm someone's setup by teaching them to never, ever, reactively vector disease into their tank. what worked in the 90s is slowly unraveling.

for example, there's one disease forum here on the site we choose to reference. Paul doesn't have a forum, although we should get him one so he can manage disease live time and check quality by comparison to what Jay accomplishes 60 times a day for five years.

Humblefish's entire site also disagrees. they know to meet the upcoming massive disease trending in the hobby proactively.

= didn't follow aseptic technique very well, then blamed the system.

 

[Neptune 555]

Not to hijack the thread but do you run UV? Or are you strictly following Paul’s immunity protocol?

I don't use UV... Mostly b/c I have been unable to really understand how you measure the flow rate to ensure it is working safe? I do think it is a good idea... But not something I have done.

 

[Uncle99]

Nitrate looks 0-4ppm
Phosphate .1ppm

 

[Neptune 555]

That's not a hijack it's a great question/agreed/UV is a big saver for large reefs. good point Reefer911.



Neptune:
that's your tank where you shape all the feedback. we don't get to know if you followed rules correctly for prep, if you omit that, we'd never know, because you shape all feedback.

when we give advise to others, where we don't control their variables (and especially their feedback) and when $3K of someone elses fish money is on the line, you recommend what works safely for others, and is published, and comes from someone who spends all day long managing other's fish tanks where open/unfiltered feedback determines % reliability.

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

there are no published articles for the alternative because that kills people's setups.

and, its not possible to harm someone's setup by teaching them to never, ever, reactively vector disease into their tank. what worked in the 90s is slowly unraveling.

for example, there's one disease forum here on the site we choose to reference. Paul doesn't have a forum, although we should get him one so he can manage disease live time and check quality by comparison to what Jay accomplishes 60 times a day for five years.

Humblefish's entire site also disagrees. they know to meet the upcoming massive disease trending in the hobby proactively.

= didn't follow aseptic technique very well, then blamed the system.

I am a huge follower of humblefish... and was going to purchase my fish via him b/c before my ich incident I was 100% sure I did not have ich. I don't expose or answer questions on this forum or promote non QT b/c exactly I don't want someone to loose their fish. I still would not add a fish with out a QT to get them eating and time to fatten them up. I lost my ich free tank in a 180 gallon reef... I had done tank transfer following snorvich (sp?) protocol for every item in my tank for 15 years. THEN ONE MANDARIN... so painful I have PTSD over this. If only I didn't add the mandarin.. but mandarins are why I entered the salt water hobby. I always followed Paul B feeding and theory re: live food and worms... but I also always did Tank Transfer to ensure no ich. My fish do live 10+ years... so the work to add a fish that lives 10 years - it was worth it. To be honest, I am kinda surprised that my fish didn't all die? and even more surprised that I added lyretail anthias and they all lived in a harem. Now I am evaluating... I have another 10 years of reef in me... I wonder in 10 years what path I will recommend? I will have done both ways for 20 years at that point.

 

[Dan_P]

Ok this is driving me nuts! Maybe Santa will bring me a Hanna checker BUT until then what do you read as the phosphate result? My established 10 year old 180 reef just hit the ugly phase again of Cyanobacteria and hair algae… I have not dealt w this in soooo long! Is high phosphate the culprit?

I feed heavy always have - follow Paul B and give live clams + frozen + sea weed. I use a rodi system when I make salt. I have a refugium w chaeto, filter socks change every few days. I did notice my cuc had thinned out - adding cuc.

2 changes recently - 1. I started changing 80 gallons of water once a month (it is as much work to do 20 gallons as 80 so I go big) 2. I started adding in pods and phyto to my tank from algae barn 6 months ago…

Just thinking out loud…

Your system is being over grown because what kept the uglies at bay is dying or has become weakened. This did not just happen. It started weeks to months ago. Why? Are trace elements depleted? Has the light finally reached the end of its life span? The changes you mentioned seem large enough to nudge a ecosystem into an unhealthy state.

I don’t see a problem, just a cool aquarium that has become off putting because the Western human mind likes white sand. There is not likely to be a simple cause to the color change in your aquarium.

 

[therootcause]

I was told to look down through the top of the vial to get the color reading, not through the side. Try that and see if it looks more definitive

I thought these were API kits which I believe are read through the side. I think my Salifert kits have all been read top down with the exception of anything involving titration.

Paul doesn't have a forum, although we should get him one so he can manage disease live time and check quality by comparison to what Jay accomplishes 60 times a day for five years.

What is your point. You're suggesting Jay's advice is invalid?

I don't use UV... Mostly b/c I have been unable to really understand how you measure the flow rate to ensure it is working safe? I do think it is a good idea... But not something I have done.

It's quite simple. Take a container of a known size, for example a five gallon pail and turn on the sterilizer while starting a stop watch at the same time. Once the pail is full stop the stop watch. You now have enough data to determine volume/time in gallons per minute, liters per minute, etc. If you need help just DM me.

Has the light finally reached the end of its life span?

I was wondering the same thing. Have lighting changes been made over the 10 years? Bulb changes to T5's as performance or spectrum shifts?

 

[Mark Gray]

Ok this is driving me nuts! Maybe Santa will bring me a Hanna checker BUT until then what do you read as the phosphate result? My established 10 year old 180 reef just hit the ugly phase again of Cyanobacteria and hair algae… I have not dealt w this in soooo long! Is high phosphate the culprit?

I feed heavy always have - follow Paul B and give live clams + frozen + sea weed. I use a rodi system when I make salt. I have a refugium w chaeto, filter socks change every few days. I did notice my cuc had thinned out - adding cuc.

2 changes recently - 1. I started changing 80 gallons of water once a month (it is as much work to do 20 gallons as 80 so I go big) 2. I started adding in pods and phyto to my tank from algae barn 6 months ago…

I am following along, personally I don't think phosphate is the problem. My 6 year old tank has recently come down with cyano to. I started checking things PO4 was off the scale, I brought it down now but I still have cyano. I started using a product called cyano clean. Not sure if it will work or not. And the tank has a 4 day break from me dosing because I am out of town. I am a young school reefer, and I have introduced ick into the tank, no losses I personally believe the ocean has ick so inorder to mimic this my tank needed it to really I introduced it because I talk a shop out of a purple tang that was dying due to ick a 20 dollar purchase. He lived but had to rehome him when he got to aggressive. I have been in the hobby since the 70s.

 

[Neptune 555]

I thought these were API kits which I believe are read through the side. I think my Salifert kits have all been read top down with the exception of anything involving titration.

What is your point. You're suggesting Jay's advice is invalid?


It's quite simple. Take a container of a known size, for example a five gallon pail and turn on the sterilizer while starting a stop watch at the same time. Once the pail is full stop the stop watch. You now have enough data to determine volume/time in gallons per minute, liters per minute, etc. If you need help just DM me.


I was wondering the same thing. Have lighting changes been made over the 10 years? Bulb changes to T5's as performance or spectrum shifts?

I don’t think it is phosphate hate either and I hate chasing numbers… I do think I could have depleted trace elements and will start adding trace elements… I have not been dosing anything… re lights I think we have a winner… I am running reef breeder lights and they are 4 years are they done?

 

[therootcause]

I don’t think it is phosphate hate either and I hate chasing numbers… I do think I could have depleted trace elements and will start adding trace elements… I have not been dosing anything… re lights I think we have a winner… I am running reef breeder lights and they are 4 years are they done?

Are the reef breeder lights a combination of T5 and LED?

 

[Neptune 555]

Are the reef breeder lights a combination of T5 and LED?

no my reef breeder are just LEDs. I started using them March 2019 so 4 years 8 months... I remember they said they last approx 5 years... so I think bingo this is the issue? Can I increase the intensity to hold them until santa can bring new lights... WOWZA the lights are a hefty price tag...

I don't think I would get them again... going to start researching now... I actually loved my OLD lights.. mix of Metal hallides and T5s. Those lights were FAB! and my coral of LPS growth was FANTASTIC.

 

[therootcause]

uhhm... I don't think the intensity or spectrum shift of the LED's is your problem. Sure you could increase the instensity but that would likely worsen the algae problem.

If it were my tank I would incrementally syphon out small areas of the problematic cyano on the sandbed. I would add some Dr. Tim's waste away or nitrifying bacteria to reintroduce a variety of healthy bacteria, then add more copepods. Consider buying from a local copepod grower to cut down your costs of phytoplankton and copepods.

Then I would add additional cleanup crew, like blue leg hermit crabs and snails. 50-100 of each, I get mine from www.reeftopia.com. If you are concerned about pests like vermetid snails then sort the astraea or nerite snails when they arrive and pop off the vermetids or anything else on the shells. QT if you wish.