Cannot jump start cycle

[LgTas]

I'm struggling to get my cycle started. Set up my Waterbox 90.3 5 days ago using old live rock, dry washed sand, and locally sourced seawater (pollutant and nutrient free). I've cut and paste the blurb from my build thread as it seems no one is really reading it (hence starting a focused thread):

Sitting at Ammonia 2ppm, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0 after testing across 3 days. This is after adding two different bacterial products (API and Fluval) at the recommended saltwater dosage. I've previously used both these products to cycle a number of freshwater tanks and my nano reef with great success. I've also used local seawater (we live in an area with no pollution or nearby stormwater or river outflows) to fill her up which I would've thought may have helped kicked the system into gear. I would've at least expected some level of nitrite?

Should I just be patient or is there a reason why the added bacteria are not doing their thing?
Salinity 35 ppt
Alk 7 dkh
Ammonia 2 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 0 ppm

 

[Specific Ocean]

Which test kit are you using?

have you removed any filter socks or a protein skimmer for a few days after adding the bacteria

I’m sure Brandon will see this thread and further assist you

 

[LgTas]

Test kits are API (I know they have a bad rap but they are all I can source in Tasmania).

System was started without filter socks or skimmer. I plan to not run a skimmer and rather just have a refugium and stock less.

Hope that sheds more light.

 

[MarkyMark_]

This might seem silly but did you shake the bottled bacteria well before pouring it into your tank? Without shaking the bottle, the bacteria could settle and stick to the bottom and sides of the container. If using Dr tims, that liquid should be cloudy if not, its possible the bacteria is still in the bottle.

 

[Specific Ocean]

Ah ok at least you’re somewhere in the ballpark

was the bottled bacteria the recommended size for your tank? Was the bottle expired?

I imagine because you started with old rock and dry sand, it’s gonna take awhile for ammonia to spike and drop, nitrate to rise and fall and nitrate to increase

 

[Specific Ocean]

Also, have you done any water changes?

it’s best to wait until you get within the right parameters

 

[Rubberfrog]

Did you throw anything in to feed the bacteria?

 

[Specific Ocean]

Did you throw anything in to feed the bacteria?

Yup! They’ll need a food source

 

[LgTas]

This might seem silly but did you shake the bottled bacteria well before pouring it into your tank? Without shaking the bottle, the bacteria could settle and stick to the bottom and sides of the container. If using Dr tims, that liquid should be cloudy if not, its possible the bacteria is still in the bottle.

Thanks for the reply and it's definitely worth asking! Yes bottle was shaken and had a flocculant look to it when added.

Ah ok at least you’re somewhere in the ballpark

was the bottled bacteria the recommended size for your tank? Was the bottle expired?

I imagine because you started with old rock and dry sand, it’s gonna take awhile for ammonia to spike and drop, nitrate to rise and fall and nitrate to increase

Yes bottle was a new batch within date. I guess what irritated me a bit is that both the Fluval and API bottles talk about adding fish immediately. If i had followed their instructions it would've been a disaster.

 

[LgTas]

Did you throw anything in to feed the bacteria?

Yup sorry forgot to mention that I ghost fed in the beginning but when ammonia reached 2 ppm i stopped as I didn't want to exceed that. Bacteria were added at the start of ghost feeding and again when 2 ppm was reached.

 

[LgTas]

I may go buy a couple pieces of live rock and add them to my sump to see if that helps.

 

[Rubberfrog]

How certain are you the ammonia is accurate?

 

[brandon429]

In my opinion the chance you had two bottles of bac dead isn’t likely, we haven’t even seen one dead bottle in cycles lately. I think you have lots of dilution affecting tests, as ghost feeding isn’t a strong source but it’s a complete source of feed nonetheless.

whatever the dates are on the two bottles, take the longest duration one and then I’ll bet that system supports life on that date.


their fish- in cycling offer depends on the constant dilutions we provide, few people really stack in the bioload on day one, and a fish is an easy balance for concentrated bac.
curing of organics in old dead rock can show as ghost reads spiked ammonia. Not lethal but a heavier organics reflected as green ammonia

I bet that water doesn’t smell. 2 ppm smells bad, when true.

we have a place for accountability for these cycle calls, ill post the thread.


cease ghost feeding and wait out the number of days on the longest duration bottled bac, probably about ten days.

change as much water as you can for new and on that date your system will carry a starting bioload. Post on this thread below about no stuck cycles if that fish goes belly up in a cloudy haze.


your rock needs to be eliminated as a stinky leak source, so smell it by lifting out of water and actually smell it closely on the start date, if no putrid smell, it’s an api over report.

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

i know the tests look strange with no nitrate or trite. But timing is what we go from there, that’s one thread we just don’t doubt bacteria


in all other threads, your testing matters, but not there. Your ocean water absolutely brings in filtration bac unless they boil it before holding. If not, it’s the same as using paid bottle bac. You are 3x bac sourced, water has lots of cycling bacteria it’s not true they are only on surfaces, they’re in water and on surfaces

i would rather have a dollar for every time any brand of cycling test kit said we weren’t ready, when we indeed were, than to have bought stock in amazon in 1996.

a test kit cannot finally determine cycle completion they’re too finicky

dead animals in gray water in 48 hours is the referee. We have never seen it happen.

 

[brandon429]

I can’t see how multi sources of bacteria will fail to do the minute things they do in the timeframe known to work.

you haven’t assembled antibiotic water, its biotic and filthy as we need.

it really is strange to see no nitrite, we kicked it out of that thread due to over reporting guaranteed lol (and nothing says you wont get a delayed boost, and then a delay on reporting when it’s resolved, api and Red Sea love to delay delay we see)

if you have absolute bone zero nitrate on day ten of this already - fed and dosed system, it’ll be so strange but that’s just one thread where it wouldnt stop a start date, smelly rocks or water + ammonia and no trite or trate would.

absent the smell of liquid cat litter, we’d begin on the date stated on the label. Changing water is simply a clean palette start for all, we all dose random things into the mix at the start.

this is the pattern that keeps working so id hold there again.

im trying to find a meme that reflects someone intently smelling ocean rocks right up close in the philtrum but I can’t locate that pic

 

[LgTas]

Thanks so much Brandon for the detailed reply. So basically i should trust time and let the system do it's thing.

Honestly I did suspect the rock may have some dead organic matter within it that may be contributing. I tried to wash it out and dried it on a 33 degree day but i did notice the water had a somewhat yellow/green tinge to it when the lights were out. This discoloration seems to have disappeared in the last three days. I will take some out and smell when I get home today. I will also read the thread when I get back from a site meeting.

Just to clarify, should I be doing water changes daily and if so is 10% sufficient. I would use local sea water for these. I use the same sea water for water changes in my nano and there's a noticeable positive response from corals (note this is temperate sea water with a natural 7 dkh and 380ppm calcium).

Also we have a very hardy species of fish that is abundant here, called a flathead, there are hundreds of flathead fry at my local boat launch site. should I add a couple to the tank while cycling?

 

[schuby]

Something to consider is that you were ghost feeding until ammonia rose to 2ppm. The uneaten food probably hasn't completely broken down and is still producing ammonia. This will delay the apparent start of the cycle. It will give you a very good-sized population of bacteria when your cycle completes. Time is likely all that is needed for the cycle to complete.

FWIW, using ammonia drops instead of food (or dead shrimp) allows one to directly get to 2ppm ammonia without the risk of it going higher.

 

[brandon429]

Yes if there is no smell the fish will be ok if you are close to the date on the bottles for completion I strongly bet they do fine.

even flatheads will be a true indication of nh3 they will act exactly like an animal in kidney distress and die in two days of exposure if thats the case.

if the rocks are notably smelling I’d change daily. It’s exporting waste and bringing in more bac. If not notable smell in water or rocks up close I’d do no water changes except one big one on the start date. This mode leaves the most of your dosed bac in suspension and available for attachment

 

[holdthecoffee]

Has it been 5 days or 35 days since you added the bottles?

I would drop the salinity of the water and raise the temperature to help promote bacteria reproduction. After the tank cycles, you can start raising the salinity again.

 

[ThemytB]

I didnt read all the replies here, someone may have said this, but I've never seen an API ammonia test read the same color as 0 on the card, test clean/fresh mixed saltwater and compare

 

[LgTas]

Great, I'll follow your advice @brandon429 and report back on whether the rocks smell. I will also retest nitrites today and see if there's anything detected. If all is ok then I'll let time do it's thing and report back on day 10.