Cannot jump start cycle

[LgTas]

Slide is soaking. Will report back when ready and do an API ammonia test at the same time and daily after that for comparison.

I received a free vial of aquaforest bacteria. Have been adding it each day as per instructions. Figured bacterial diversity wouldn't hurt.

 

[LgTas]

Ok the seneye is up and running... currently reading 0.197 mg/l NH3 in the DT. Took a reading in the sump and it's 0.164.

Read conflicting reports on the toxicity of ammonia around this concentration but clearly cycle is not complete.

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...eneye-nh3-misreads.773577/page-3#post-8357706



If you can benchmark the seneye off a known safe sample, say some reef water from the ocean and get thousandths ppm, that would be neat to see. Or a known cycled reef, let’s see a known accurate read to benchmark it
We need that seneye to read in the thousandths on a known sample before it’s your umpire
*notice how there are trim settings in the seneye above, they had to deeply adjust it for accuracy then it seemed to test well

if you can get it to read thousandths ppm on a reef water or other tank post cycle sample, then back to yours and it’s tenths, I’d buy that.

 

[LgTas]

how do we know the seneye is right, based on this, and no smell:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a...eneye-nh3-misreads.773577/page-3#post-8357706

and all the bac added, the time in water etc.


it very well may not be done, but how are all other markers missing, such as dead animals, cloudy water


If you can benchmark the seneye off a known safe sample, say some reef water from the ocean and get thousandths ppm, that would be neat to see. Or a known cycled reef, let’s see a known accurate read to benchmark it

*notice how there are trim settings in the seneye*

You make a good point. I'll get some fresh sea water tomorrow and test that as a bench mark.

API still reading 4ppm.

 

[brandon429]

Can’t wait to see for sure.

 

[brandon429]

It’s important we benchmark with active water, not inactive water meaning something cycled with life in it, handling the by-the-minute active conversions

we want those to be .002-.009 it cannot be just stuck at .001 and be right, thats a misread per above. Good benchmark on reef water will be .002-.009

seneye corporation responds in a linked thread collected above saying hundredths ppm is a misread too on a post cycle reef, that will help when seeking your outside confirmation. If it reads above thousandths ppm on the known good active water, it’s got to be trimmed out

 

[LgTas]

Thanks Brandon. I'll report back once I've collected seawater. We had a big storm last night so water is likely quite turbid.

Last night (knowing the storm was coming) I did my usual 12% seawater change and added more aquaforest bacteria. After water change there was a corresponding 10% drop in ammonia which then started slowly creeping up towards 0.22. Woke up this morning and it's at 0.132.

 

[brandon429]

no prob its an overread. trimming those rascals to .002-.009 is tricky. then theyre best around.

once you can get a reading in the thousandths on a known cycled sample of water, from a living reef live or in tank, all set for baselining. you'll be able to do amazing tests such as dosing raw ammonia into the system and watching it get eaten up in five mins, mass doses. true dynamics will be revealed

you'll be able to see digitally that when a fish dies or a snail from natural the cycle holds.

You can tell by that seneye thread that nobody accepts even hundredths as an acceptable variance on a known cycled system

minor feed overdoses will register as a peak and trough within the range, but rarely if ever will it break the upper end in a post-cycle reef, whenever that date is about to be determined for your tank

 

[brandon429]

turbid ocean water/ not sure that's thousandths truly we mess with mainly square tanks here. but as an adjunct reading among ammonia reads, fascinating to know

if it can find thousandths in a sample then the machine is calibrated well.

 

[Garf]

How do you calibrate them? Surely someone could knock up a DIY solution (perhaps they have already).

 

[brandon429]

by getting a reef tank sample from friend/lfs


not sure if those common ammonia/vol calculators are good for making sub ppm runs, thousandths

those are set for more like 1+ ppm increments

if you have no access to that, and only turbid ocean water after a storm, then every common variable in reefing doesn't apply here and id advise using the non-test ruleset we've been using a long time as the main guide.

waiting sixty weeks for api compliance among living animals is also ok too.

Without that reference thread above I would not have known seneyes require tuning, soaking, and trim to begin. any stuck .001 is false, and per seneye thousandths ppm is the known running curve for all reef tanks. they state .002-.009 as the working range, so that's what we're working with.

Not at any time have I thought he needed more ammonia verification, we used animals for that a while back. plus the water smells great, is clear, these are the reliables. watching two or more testers try and line up a reading is always helpful in comparison threads.

People have been told you cannot reef until a test kit allows it, so that's what we're investigating/which test is going to refuse vs allow.

 

[LgTas]

I've added the seneye to my 50l nano which has been running for a year. Admittedly it hasn't been the most stable tank in the last few days as I removed some of the filter media (placed in my Waterbox Sump), disturbed the substrate, and had a trilobite die and get scavenged on for a day or so.

Currently reading 0.049 ppm

 

[brandon429]

excellent excellent

so do a large water change in the current tank and begin, you know that's the cleanest water profile you can attain and we know the water you're adding works ok in other reefs

you are allowed to wait as long as you want for the tests to allow a start, or change water and begin now. we're not changing the water due to toxicity/living animals aren't harmed, its to alleviate concerns about free ammonia in the current sample.


that benchmarks nicely above, close enough for a while really. heck after two weeks of straight 8 ppm fear posts Ill take anyone's stated .04 lets call it tuned and ready.

if you want to wait until your current tank w animals is down to .04 then ill be interested to see how long it takes, should be close considering cycle chart data.

 

[brandon429]

bump edited in some stuff

 

[LgTas]

I'll probably start stocking from next week. All current livestock are doing well. Really enjoying the white glove shrimp. He/she comes out into the foreground often. Going to see if I can catch a few more tomorrow.

Something I've noticed is that the seneye's ammonia readings seems to be lowest in the early morning around 0.14, peak during the day to 0.22, and then drop back to the current 0.11. Not sure what's causing this?

 

[brandon429]

The most up to date studies say there is no rebound back up to the tenths from any trend down, active surface area causing the down doesn’t let any go to waste above thousandths... and all cycle charts agree about the down, but not back up to tenths trend for ammonia.

your machine is reporting the right motion but still not trimmed down to pinpoint decimals just yet it may take a bit to mature, or perhaps there’s trim technique tbd. Still a worthy investment either way, tracks multi params

Having never seen thousandths we are still approximating but for sure those variances occur and are tracked by seneye, but it’s not in the tenths or the animals would be dead and clouding would set in.

any animal you add will be fine like the rest because the water is clear and smells fine and you’ve given great wait time. If the machine never shows thousandths, at least you’ll have a very sensitive meter to show large spikes if something dies though it may show tenths for a long time.


I would not be surprised if diurnal cycles for plants and algae alter nh3 uptake rates as Taricha had mentioned lately, accounting for the variance within the range the reader can report. The readings for the machine cannot be taken as laser accurate until it benchmarks in the thousandths on some type of water sample, water from a pet store reef would be easy to get

 

[LgTas]

Well I took the plunge and moved my livestock across on the weekend (2 clowns and a yellow clown goby)... since doing that the seneye NH3 reading has steadily decreased and is now reading 0.005 mg/l. I'm going to do an API test tomorrow just to see how off it is.

Fish are loving their new home.

 

[brandon429]

Hey was that api test far off, agreed compared against a now calibrated seneye that’s gold info

 

[LgTas]

Ah sorry. Wasn't sure people were interested. The API read 2ppm and when the Seneye was reading 0.005. Funny thing is I didn't calibrate the seneye but it gradually decreased to 0.001. Now its steady at 0.001 which I'm told is not a good thing and shows a potential error. I emailed seneye and they seemed to say it was fine. I did have one blip that jumped to 0.069 then 0.079 at the second read and then immediatley back down to 0.001. Seneye suggested this may have been something that was temporarily stuck under the slide.

Next issue - API Calcium test kit which I've been using with my nano for over 8 months reads 420 ppm. Bought a salifert test kit bundle which had a calcium test in it and thought i'd check it to compare... it's coming back with 490 ppm - 500 ppm. I cant work out which one is correct as I don't have a control?

 

[brandon429]

LG the fact those two ca++ kits are so close means an avg is best we can do and thats a closer read than I’d expect so those are two pretty good calcium tests there

can you post a pic of a recently ran api ammonia we need the pic for a comparison thread on api samples from cycled tanks