Captive bred fish: Does it matter? Does it matter to you?

[doubleshot00]

Buying pre-QT fish are the most important to me. They come in eating everything and outgoing. Thats my experience.

 

[FeliciaM]

I would have given you 'Heart' - except - I don't think it's all that awesome to say nothing is taken out of the wild. Is that really a thing?

 

[Labridaedicted]

As a wrasse person, I have a hard time getting captive raised specimens (atleast within that family). That being said, when I see a captive raised version of a fish that I like I will often pick it up. I wholly support the captive rearing of fish for our hobby as it generally makes them more hardy, less likely to be sick, and acclimated to prepared foods. Yes, they are more expensive, but thats due to both demand and the cost of the setup to rear the fish.

Additionally, corals that are captive raised for a long time are also preferable for many of the same reasons relating to hardiness, no parasites, and retention of color. (Wild acros and maticultured corals in my systems have tended to slowly die over the course of several moths to a year)

 

[reefinatl]

If available I buy CB only and will readily alter a stocking list to accommodate a similar choice to go CB instead of WC.

Currently I have 4 clowns, all CB with two being locally bred. 4 Azure damsels, Yellow Tang , and 4 watchman gobies all CB. Only a Tomini and yellow wrasse WC as I don't believe there were any alternatives.

Also let me say for the record on my little soap box there is ZERO need to be harvesting corals from the wild at this point. So many options are already identical and rebrands of existing strains just lighting and nutrient games.

 

[ZipAdeeZoa]

When I started my Reefer i was pretty adamant that I would only buy captive bred fish.

At the moment for captive bred fish I have a pair of orange skunk clownfish, a radial filefish and an orchid dotty back.

I did break my own rule though, I was waiting for a captive bred black cardinal to round out my stocking but after a very long time with no luck finding one I decided to try for a chalkbass since they are also available captive bred. When I went to my LFS to do the rounds I saw a beautiful chalkbass. I knew from the price that it wasn't captive bred and I sat in the store watching it for about an hour. I decided in the end to pull the trigger and honestly I'm happy I did.

I used to be really adamant that captive bred was really the only ethical option. As I've grown and been in the hobby longer I feel like its much more of grey area. Theres always the shady parts of the pet trade but on the flipside it can fuel local economies, help foster an appreciation for the ocean in the or at least show communities and governments the value of healthy reefs.

I do believe that captive bred is the future of the hobby but I also appreciate that wild collection will be a part of it for sometime and that if managed well it can really benefit communities and reefs alike.

Being honest I might still go for the black cardinal if I ever find one although my reefer 170 is getting a bit full.

 

[Gopmatt1]

Would aggravates me is when fish stores LFS places put their captive bred in with the wild caught fish so it basically negates the whole purpose of buying a captive bred so it would be parasite-free.

If I wanted to go through the quarantine procedures I would just buy a wild fish but if I'm going to buy a pair of designer clownfish I shouldn't have to go through the same QT as I would if I bought a wrasse or an athias.. and that's another great reason that these yellow tangs won't face off into a skinny white thing because values are tank conditioned from birth... .

It's the the same taking a wrasse from the ocean then a whale but wrasse if they don't like the mating pool will jump into a different risk pool or into a different section which will draw attention from females... They don't jump because they want to kill themselves... Dane with diamond gobies. Have you seen how much they look like mudskippers....?

 

[G Santana]

I don't think we are at the stage where captive fish will be the deciding factor, but I hope we get there!

 

[Sump Crab]

I would rather support sustainably caught wild fish from a 3rd world country than puppy mill style operations in the first world.

With that being said I will support the decision made by local governments on the best way to manage their natural resources. If smaller nations and economies can develop a profitable business model breeding fish then good on them. I just hate the idea of a bunch of yuppies in the US making the decisions for the nations where the fish actually come from.

 

[Treefer32]

I think many people have said this and I agree with it. If I have the option of captive vs. wild captive any day. I want to know my hobby is not damaging the natural order of things in the wild. I don't trust companies that farm fish in the wild to not farm to extinction. So, I would much rather invest in sustainable practices.

I haven't bought fish for around 2 years now and am getting to a point I need to purchase. I also prefer to buy fish that are pre-quarantined. What I don't know and would be interested to understand is companies that don't Pre-QT that sell captive bred fish. Are the situations the captive bred fish contained in treated sufficiently to keep parasites and disease out? Or should they be treated the same as wild caught. In which case, I would still purchase whatever is pre QT'd like from TSM Aquatics.

 

[Biota_Marine]

I would have given you 'Heart' - except - I don't think it's all that awesome to say nothing is taken out of the wild. Is that really a thing?

 

[Piscans]

im neutral, some fish (cough, cough, tangs) are better wild caught, but gobies, blennies, damsels, clowns, etc etc etc are better captive bred. mabye, the fish that are better wild, should be kept in the wild (tangs), but thats just me.

 

[Biota_Marine]

Can you elaborate on this? What does it mean to "care"? And I'm not asking to pull on my heartstrings. I would like to be educated on this. Is ornamental fish collecting not sustainable? Is it somehow inhumane?

I'm having a hard time making that connection. Don't get me wrong, I can understand how somebody can take that point of view, but I feel that they come to the conclusion based on feelings and not fact. It seems to me there has to be hard evidence to say otherwise, and that's what I'm asking about.

This is awesome to read. Do you think eventually you will get the more common fish like [let's say] the yellow tang down to a reasonable price ~$50?

I think the humane angle is subjective because they are fish and there are healthy populations that rebound easily or have little to no impact when collected for the aquarium trade. Some people will say taking a fish from the ocean and putting it into a small body of water but I think that largely depends on the species (is it a migrating species like certain tang or "jellybean" fish that spend their entire lives in a few square inches of reefs) but that's just personal opinion and can vary extremely.

Also I don't see the yellow tang ever being a $50 fish unless we have an absolutely extreme scientific breakthroughs in getting a higher survival rate and increasing growth rates which we are working on and it has progressed over the past 3-4 years but like I mentioned above it takes 6-7 months to get to a sellable sizing and that would mean less than $7 is going into that fish a month to break even and that's not yet possible.

 

[Biota_Marine]

What I'm getting at is that it doesn't cost 10 times more to breed/raise an almost identical fish. And the inflated price, while cheaper than it used to be, is still inflated for profit only. You run a business, I get it, but I get tired of companies saying that they are doing things for the greater good of our environment and not profit. Tesla is another example, do you think he started that company to save the environment or for the $$$. I appreciate that you CB fish, but call it what it is, a business for profit. It's also great that hopefully one day you will be able to breed and sell every fish available in the trade and eliminate the need for wild caught. We definitely need to do something to help the ocean out, and this and land based coral farms are a great start.

This seems more of a linear way of looking at it, option B to the cost of the Cubans being cheaper is if I sold both the royal gramma and cuban basslets at a median price of $300. That covers the cost of the production of both species but realistically no one is paying $300 for a Royal Gramma while they're readily available from the wild. So to be able to produce both these species and offer them at an economical pricing I need to be able to "make money" where it can be made or I'm producing both species at a loss and in turn both those breeding programs won't exist.

Obviously Tesla is an interesting example because they "produce cars" but 90% of thier operating profits come from selling their Carbon credits to other car manufacturers (possible exaggeration I haven't looked at their data in some time) so they aren't really saving the world but having a net zero impact by allowing others increased emissions. We aren't doing that we truly are a bunch of passionate scientists who all grew up loving aquariums and developed a passion for this hobby and in turn the oceans. We need all of our animals to be obtainable by consumers or there's no business and obtainable is unfortunately defined by the wild collection pricing. This is why we simply don't work on species like Flame Angelfish and Moorish idols because they can't be produced at a cost similar to wild caught or what may be reasonably near wild caught pricing.

The goal is to have a diverse catalogue of available species and we try to make animals more obtainable as we refine methodology, increase diversity, or make changes. Yes, it is a business with a goal of making a profit but none of us are driving lambos or ordering bottle service and instead we make improvements into our products and research to complete an overall goal of a more sustainable hobby.

 

[Biota_Marine]

I would rather support sustainably caught wild fish from a 3rd world country than puppy mill style operations in the first world.

With that being said I will support the decision made by local governments on the best way to manage their natural resources. If smaller nations and economies can develop a profitable business model breeding fish then good on them. I just hate the idea of a bunch of yuppies in the US making the decisions for the nations where the fish actually come from.

This is the best part about our main breeding facility being in Palau where the majority of our team is native Palauan. Gives jobs to that economy without collecting.

 

[mike89t]

I'm leaning more and more towards captive bred fish.

Currently 66% of my fish are captive bred.

My next fish is most likely going to be a captive bred Biota Yellow Tang


I've been visiting Hawaii for nearly 4 decades and have seen first hand the effects of overfishing for the aquarium trade among other pressures on the reefs. I remember seeing vast schools of yellow tangs back in the 80s. Having just got back from Hawaii in October, I still saw the iconic fish but not in the numbers like before.

 

[Dr. Reef]

As most of you know I am in business selling quarantined fish. I can tell you from my personal experience, I buy from @Biota_Marine, ORA, Sustainable and may other captive bred facilites.
I find it much easier to keep/treat and ship captive bred fish compared to wild caught counterpart.
Also NOT all captive bred places are the same. I have found in my experice that BIOTA and couple more places are really really good and i have bought from some breeders that i will never go back to again.
So Buy from a reputable source, Someone thats been around for a while and are in it for a better cause than just being a fish-mill (if there is a word).
Hands down the best fish i carry.

 

[fishrambo]

This is a huge problem that not allot of ppl agree on but 20 years ago i went scuba diving for the first time in my life and seen huge beautiful clown fish and just outta this world corals that i could not explain to you now i went back to the very same spot to relive that memory and found just you very common damsels a few powder blue tangs etc. but gone where the "nemos" the huge clowns anything that was at-least the lest bit popular gone. This wasnt just a fluke ive dove that reef and several others around i did find a small tomato clown chillin in an anemone. But with all of that being said i do buy from both sources. I am glad ORA and other organizations are making an effort. keep reefin yall

 

[Tamberav]

Of course, but many people will not like them. I think captive bred is the future of this hobby only because we are taking and killing way to many fish from the sea.

But as far as fish health and hardiness goes, I would rather "not" have a captive bred fish as they were not exposed to many, if any diseases so they won't have any immunity to anything.

Of course if all fish and corals were captive bred and none of us used NSW, it probably should not be a problem.

For now, only wild caught for me because my tank depends on immunity and not medications or quarantine for health.

I have mixed captive fish in with wilds (many people do) and in tanks with known parasites and they have not been a problem. They seem to do pretty well. I believe some breeders use NSW but also immunity is complicated and captive fish also still have slime coats. They probably still limit an infection with a healthy slime coat or what not and then their body gets to work building immunity before they ever get visibly sick.

 

[Tamberav]

Anywho, captive if available is my preference. Wild Multibar angels have abysmal survival… like almost none seem to make it and we probably should not even collect them. Yet they are finally available captive bred.

I know potters angels are hidden away with some breeders, don’t you guys want to see those come back to the hobby?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

This is a huge problem that not allot of ppl agree on but 20 years ago i went scuba diving for the first time in my life and seen huge beautiful clown fish and just outta this world corals that i could not explain to you now i went back to the very same spot to relive that memory and found just you very common damsels a few powder blue tangs etc. but gone where the "nemos" the huge clowns anything that was at-least the lest bit popular gone. This wasnt just a fluke ive dove that reef and several others around i did find a small tomato clown chillin in an anemone. But with all of that being said i do buy from both sources. I am glad ORA and other organizations are making an effort. keep reefin yall

I'm under the impression that the majority of clowns fish that are sold are captive bread. Everytime I went to a fish store and saw clowns for sale they were mostly the designer ones that hobbyists breed.

I'm certain there are still wild caught being sold. But I think that what you've experienced has more to do with other natural or perhaps environmental processes.