Chaeto put to the test: Going beyond our expectations! (Part 1)

[Niall_Jones]

The only thing this test shows is a (refugium) that is 25 gallons with a massive amount of chaeto reduces 1 cube of food, and applying this test results to a working aquarium is faulty at best. This test is only misleading and not really applicable to ANY standard aquarium setup. The test was to determine if a refugium would be a practical filter system. This test in no way even addresses this.

The test should have been setting up an ACTUAL tank, (typical size) with ACTUAL animal life (typical stock), with a typical sump with a typical refugium chamber size found in most sumps, and chaeto amount applicable to the chamber, and then test the water quality over time. While interesting, this test is all but useless for a realistic tank application.

The test parameters and the controls need to be similar and applicable to the environment you are testing for, not just making up a test that really has no application to a typical reef/aquarium setup.

I think ur missing the point here. There is no TYPICAL in reefing. There are variables beyond measure and the basic question was can chateo remove unwanted nutrients. Simple.

 

[TylerS]

@randyBRS, I'm not sure if you have considered testing for iron or other elements but that may end up being useful information. If I remember correctly you are doing no water changes and I believe many people dose iron in one form or another to help their macro-algae refuguims. I wonder if lack of iron could actually end up limiting neutrient uptake from the algae.

 

[Centerline]

This is AWESOME!!! Great job. I can't wait to see your long term results. My tank has been running with no skimmer and only a fuge, chemipure blue and polyfilter since day one (1.5 yrs.). I've made some rookie mistakes that created nutrient spikes but mostly my nutrients are low enough for me (N = 5ppm w Red Sea ; PO4=.05 w Hanna ulr). I feed one cube hikari mega marine algae and one cube cyclopeeze daily. Plus feed 1" square of mysis to my anemone every other day. Very high bioload.

I found a thread on another forum that discussed a "duplex" refugium set up. I found this to be very effective at eliminating the detritus build up in the fuge and my algae growth really stepped up when I implemented the duplex set up.

I've also found that dosing 2ppm daily of sodium nitrate helps keep my phosphates lower. I have it on one of my dosing channels. My tank has nitrates even without dosing, which is kinda confusing to me. I wonder if that specific form of nitrate is more easily utilized by whatever algae or bacteria that is consuming phosphate.

Ya, I believe that the duplex refugium + benthic zone was originally a @Steve Tyree creation from many years ago. If not he certainly helped make reefers more aware of it by supporting some of the rarest and most healthy coral to be had.

 

[Centerline]

Great work BRS and Randy!
I have been running refugiums with chaeto for many years. I also use mud in my refugiums. On my 120 gal, I am running a 15 gal refugium which is only 10" deep, so actually 22"x15" surface area exposed. My high rate of return from display is also split, so not all the returning water goes through refugium thus increasing contact time. I light 24/7 with a pair of 65w PC's, a bit outdated but I am in the process of changing to LED's.

Pictured above is about a months growth in the chaetosandwich alone, there is another large growing clump of chaeto on the right side of the refugium. This 120 has no nitrates, although the phosphates fluctuate between water changes, sometimes as high as 1. The fish and corals are fed 2 cubes of regular mysis and 1 of piscine mysis, skipping frozen foods every 3rd day and feeding nori and pellets on 3rd day. Water changes, 30 gal or app. 25% once per month.

Man I absolutely love the chaetosandwich! Is that white plastic on the bottom and if so is it there to reflect light to the underside of the chaetosandwich?

 

[Centerline]

We give full tours to anyone who asks : )

Can I get a tour of the dry branch rock and hand pick it?

 

[randyBRS]

@randyBRS, I'm not sure if you have considered testing for iron or other elements but that may end up being useful information. If I remember correctly you are doing no water changes and I believe many people dose iron in one form or another to help their macro-algae refuguims. I wonder if lack of iron could actually end up limiting neutrient uptake from the algae.

For the next evolution of this test, we are looking at setting up fully functional reef tanks where we can see the chaeto effect in a real world scenario. This should include regular water changes as well. I'm not sure if we would add another variable to the chaeto other than just food alone, but I can add it to the board of ideas! ;-)

-Randy

 

[psidriven]

For later tests can you see if trimming the pale looking, but leaving dark cheato or vice versa makes a difference? Been curious if there was a difference in performance between the two.

Great test and appreciate the effort.

 

[Ryanbrs]

For later tests can you see if trimming the pale looking, but leaving dark cheato or vice versa makes a difference? Been curious if there was a difference in performance between the two.

Great test and appreciate the effort.

The cheato grown under less intense lights absolutely seems to be darker. I'd wager there is a significant difference in nutrient content as related to color.

 

[beaslbob]

For the next evolution of this test, we are looking at setting up fully functional reef tanks where we can see the chaeto effect in a real world scenario. This should include regular water changes as well. I'm not sure if we would add another variable to the chaeto other than just food alone, but I can add it to the board of ideas! ;-)

-Randy

I wonder if my "beaslbob build" for FW tanks might work. (with mods of course)

basically start the tank with chaeto right from the start. then wait a week. then add male mollies. wait a week. start feeding 1 flake per molly per day. Then in a few weeks do the marine fish/reef setup.

no live rock no live sand no water changes. but with reef lights for the corals.

Just an idea.

Worth at most .02

 

[shiftline]

Great video. Seeing the boost on PH from the Kessil really inspired me to add some to my sump with a high output led. I'm amazed how fast its growing!

 

[randyBRS]

Great video. Seeing the boost on PH from the Kessil really inspired me to add some to my sump with a high output led. I'm amazed how fast its growing!

Awesome! Is this your personal channel? That's some great growth!

-Randy

 

[shiftline]

Thanks Randy! Yes it is! I'm simply amazed at how much it has grown so far. I have about a 0.1 PH boost so far but I expect it to keep rising at the cheato grows. Thanks guys for inspiring me to set it up!

 

[Damon]

And brs, another thing you guys should test, is altering light hours on the cheato, versus how it altets the pH and the amount of nutrient it exports on the "same" ball of cheato.. I have done this, and it would also fall in line with a few things that most people don't even realize about cheato.. It more than likely needs to be done on the highly lighted cheato ball..

Just a hint for another test...

 

[Chris Jakubowski]

H80 is for to small size fuge / nano setups (which is what 8/10 reefers have) - the H80 will do the same as the H360 but has 4.5x more power and will cover a larger area for those with over 4ft tanks

 

[Chris Jakubowski]

Would love to see a Kessil H80 vs a Kessil H380 over a refugium to find which is most optimal for which size of refugium

WOW

you'll up to 6 pages already.

Just had another genuine beaslbob idea.

(more commonly know as a brain f***)

Try putting 4 male mollys in the tanks (including test). And see what happens to the nitrogen cycle and how the fish do.

The live fish will be adding co2 as well as just the rotting food.

But that is just a thought

Worth at most .02

I take it you can not much for the welfare of these mollies? they are jumpers, especially when in a stressed environment so will need a lid putting on the tank, the lid will impede the experiment lights

 

[beaslbob]

I take it you can not much for the welfare of these mollies? they are jumpers, especially when in a stressed environment so will need a lid putting on the tank, the lid will impede the experiment lights

that is simply not true. the mollys will slowly acclimate to salt, feel and see no elevated ammonia or co2 with raised oxygen levels while feeding off of pods and algae in the tank.
Just as in FW planted setups with platys or guppies in my signature.

 

[Damon]

I take it you can not much for the welfare of these mollies? they are jumpers, especially when in a stressed environment so will need a lid putting on the tank, the lid will impede the experiment lights

Hmmnn.. Maybe my mollies are weird.. I have had them in my tub for quite a while, and they have reproduced.. And I haven't had a jumper as of yet.. Though, I do plan on making some sort of screen (I actually had a file fish jump), I just have yet to do it.. Simply because of course the tub is round..

 

[Chris Jakubowski]

Hmmnn.. Maybe my mollies are weird.. I have had them in my tub for quite a while, and they have reproduced.. And I haven't had a jumper as of yet.. Though, I do plan on making some sort of screen (I actually had a file fish jump), I just have yet to do it.. Simply because of course the tub is round..

I grow Chaeto in a nano cube setup and use mollies to keep the nitrogen cycle going, in the 2 years i've kept it i have had 7 jump out of the tank, 4 didnt make it and the other 3 I happened to be there to save them, they always seem scatterish whenever I clean the tank

that is simply not true. the mollys will slowly acclimate to salt, feel and see no elevated ammonia or co2 with raised oxygen levels while feeding off of pods and algae in the tank.
Just as in FW planted setups with platys or guppies in my signature.

Mollies don't need to slowly acclimate, they go in and out of saltwater/freshwater estuaries within minutes in the wild

 

[Damon]

I grow Chaeto in a nano cube setup and use mollies to keep the nitrogen cycle going, in the 2 years i've kept it i have had 7 jump out of the tank, 4 didnt make it and the other 3 I happened to be there to save them, they always seem scatterish whenever I clean the tank



Mollies don't need to slowly acclimate, they go in and out of saltwater/freshwater estuaries within minutes in the wild

Maybe that's why.. A cube isn't that big at all, and from what I've observed (at least of mine), they like a lot of swimming room (I liken them actually to tiny tangs, always swimming around. Very active). What your describing sounds like spacing issues..

And mine actually nibble at my hands and fingers when I either add food, nori, or have to remove some cheato from the tub.. So they aren't skittish at all. Not even the babies after a couple weeks..

It could be that I have a ton of rock in there also, so like any other fish, they feel comfortable.. Not sure.. But I have, now, with the smaller ones, I think 19 in there (would have had more but stupid damsel age the babies), with my algea blenny, clown Tang, and the damsel..

 

[beaslbob]

that is simply not true. the mollys will slowly acclimate to salt, feel and see no elevated ammonia or co2 with raised oxygen levels while feeding off of pods and algae in the tank.
Just as in FW planted setups with platys or guppies in my signature.

forgot I didn't have a signature on this board.

google beaslbob build if anyone is interested