Chloroquine phosphate

[GreatWhiteTang]

When I need to qt I put a Sponge in my dt sump.. For a week ahead of time.. Then when I set up qt I use fresh water and slap the spronge in the intake of a Power head in qt.. Thats usually plenty of good bacteria, Humblefish.. U throw a dollar bill in ur qt with that? [emoji14]

 

[merlberg]

Ahhhh ok a sponge! Can I ask why do you use fresh water instead of your display water GreatWhiteTang

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

Ahhhh ok a sponge! Can I ask why do you use fresh water instead of your display water GreatWhiteTang

I find I get plenty of bacteria from a "cultured sponge" and I just prefer to use freshly mixed and tested saltwater is all.

 

[merlberg]

Ok maybe I will try that next time. I was just afraid of having a mini cycle so I would always use my DT water even tho recently was my first time using my QT lol.

Is that the only thing you put in your qt power head, just a sponge?

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

Ok maybe I will try that next time. I was just afraid of having a mini cycle so I would always use my DT water even tho recently was my first time using my QT lol.

Is that the only thing you put in your qt power head, just a sponge?

A couple 4 inch pvc elbows, a couple 3 inch pvc straight sections for hides, and a heater of course! Other than that yes just a sponge that has been running in my display sump for 1-2 weeks(mag drive 1200 Sponge so it's pretty good size like a 2.5 x 5 x 3 inch sponge if I had to guess) I also use prime when I initially set it up!

 

[merlberg]

Gotcha!

Thanks for the info. I find everyone's routine to be a little different but so helpful to me as to try n find my own routine . Thanks again

 

[GreatWhiteTang]

Gotcha!

Thanks for the info. I find everyone's routine to be a little different but so helpful to me as to try n find my own routine . Thanks again

No problem! Yes we all have our own methods that is for sure!

 

[Humblefish]

Ohh ok I see... Makes more sense lol! In your QT how is good bacteria produced if no live rock? I've heard of just buying liquid good bacteria to put in the Qt but when I went to the fish place he told me not too and just use my DT water since it already has good bacteria. But I feel as if he was giving me false info because a lot of things read says to just buy good bacteria

There is not enough free floating "good" bacteria to help with biological filtration in QT. I use "seeded" sponges similar to what @GreatWhiteTang does, except I keep mine down in the DT sump for one solid month before use in QT. I feel one month allows enough time for free floating nitrifying bacteria to get on the sponge and begin colonizing. The same as would happen with a rock. Aquaclear HOB power filters come with these very porous foam inserts that you can "seed" and then put back in the HOB when it is time to QT. You can buy additional foam inserts for cheap, and I have never experienced ammonia in QT using this method.

If you are interested; I outline my entire QT protocol (with pics) here: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189815-how-quarantine.html

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish.. U throw a dollar bill in ur qt with that? [emoji14]

Hey man, salt is expensive! Gotta be thrifty! :wink:

 

[merlberg]

There is not enough free floating "good" bacteria to help with biological filtration in QT. I use "seeded" sponges similar to what @GreatWhiteTang does, except I keep mine down in the DT sump for one solid month before use in QT. I feel one month allows enough time for free floating nitrifying bacteria to get on the sponge and begin colonizing. The same as would happen with a rock. Aquaclear HOB power filters come with these very porous foam inserts that you can "seed" and then put back in the HOB when it is time to QT. You can buy additional foam inserts for cheap, and I have never experienced ammonia in QT using this method.

If you are interested; I outline my entire QT protocol (with pics) here: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189815-how-quarantine.html

Wow thats really good info... I just actually skimmed through it quickly but will go over it thoroughly in a bit... It's a lot of info and seems helpful esp. For me who needs step by step direction because I want to make sure I'm doing it properly lol.

If I had seen this before I would if prob. Kept my dog faced puffer tht had ich and tried to qt it myself to see how it goes.

 

[merlberg]

Ok so I have another question ... I asked a doctor I knw to prescribe me CP and he said yes but he can only prescribe the tablets. Fine!

I go pick it up and the name is Mefloquine instead. It is for malaria but it's not CP -_- can I still use this for ich?

 

[firemedix911]

Not the same. Same type of drug but it isn't the generic brand of CP. I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Humblefish]

Ok so I have another question ... I asked a doctor I knw to prescribe me CP and he said yes but he can only prescribe the tablets. Fine!

I go pick it up and the name is Mefloquine instead. It is for malaria but it's not CP -_- can I still use this for ich?

Mefloquine IS NOT chloroquine based. I recommend you bring it back. The confusion here is that both Mefloquine & Chloroquine phosphate (CP) are used to treat malaria, but only CP is known to also eradicate external parasites in fish. Mefloquine may (or may not) do the same, but at this point it is an unknown commodity.

When you go back try to get 99% pure Chloroquine phosphate powder... even if you have to wait for them to special order it. That's the good stuff. You can use CP tablets - Aralen is the brand name for chloroquine. However, there are downsides to using the tablets *see below*:

In most cases, 250 mg tablets have an equivalence of 150 mg chloroquine base, and 500 mg tablets have an equivalence of 300 mg chloroquine base. Although the purity mentioned above is generally accurate, it would be best to verify the chloroquine base contained in the tablets of your choice in order to be able to properly calculate the exact dosage. Keep in mind if you decide to use the tablets, there are some inactive ingredients, which you may have to deal with, e.g., Camauba Wax, Colloidal Silicon Dioxide, Dibasic Calcium Phosphate, Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Polyethylene Glycol, Polysorbate 80, Pregelatinized Starch, Sodium Starch Glycolate, Stearic Acid, and Titanium Dioxide. And as mentioned earlier in this chapter there are occasions where some medicines are not in their pure form (100% pure), i.e., mixed with a substance called a 'carrier,' which should be noted on its label. If so its potency is reduced, and if not sure about the exact amount of medication needed, suggest contacting a more experienced aquarist for the way to resolve this situation.

 

[merlberg]

Man oh man smh ... Thanks [emoji30] I'm so mad I opened them already smh

 

[4FordFamily]

Humble fish, my concern is my wrasses. I have 23 total. I do not wish to kill them. Isn't cupramine more effective and less dangerous for them? I know it can be used in conjunction with prazi also

 

[Humblefish]

Humble fish, my concern is my wrasses. I have 23 total. I do not wish to kill them. Isn't cupramine more effective and less dangerous for them? I know it can be used in conjunction with prazi also

When I first started experimenting with CP, I lost a couple of sixlines and a melanurus. Ever since, I've only treated wrasses with Cupramine or tank transfer. A LFS I advise who specializes in high end fairy/flasher wrasses uses CP on them and reports no ill effects. According to multiple threads I've read ... some people report causalities when treating wrasses with CP, others say their newly acquired wrasses do just fine in it. It really is a big mystery. :noidea:

One trend I have noticed is that it mostly seems to be sixlines that people lose.

 

[cono]

just posted your info on another sight

 

[alg]

[HASHTAG]#humblefish[/HASHTAG] -- i have a lemonpeel tang that developed swelling behind the eye while in CP, and a boxfish that developed stomach bloat in the same tank. have added kanamycin and metro to the food, but the boxfish is no longer eating (so no boiled-pea solution there either). normally at this point i'd try metro and epsom salt in the water column: do you know if it's safe to use one or both of those in conjunction with CP? also curious, have you ever heard of a correlation between CP and edema? (Maybe as a result of "irritating" a parasite on/in the fish?)

[a little more background on the tank:

• tank is 100 gal sub-divided dedicated QT, been running for ~6 months, has never contained copper
• currently houses three tangs, three blennies, two boxfish (m/f), female flame fairy wrasse, juvenile harlequin tusk, southern blue devil, purple tilefish
• params: ammonia slightly elevated (~.1), nitrite/nitrate negligible, salinity 1.025, temp 78-80
• fish were in QT for anywhere from 1-4 weeks no meds for observation (different fish arrived at different times). they developed signs of an ich infestation -- not confirmed microscopically, but telltale white spots
• CP started 5 days ago, ramped over two days (1/4 dose am, 1/4 pm, 1/4 next am, 1/4 next pm) to a concentration of .15 mg/l
• lemonpeel tang's eye shows no signs of cloudiness. we had a few pieces of live rock w/ coral in that tank before and we took them out and added pvc pipe for hiding places when we began CP, so it seems likely to me that it got disoriented at night and bumped its eye into something.
• male boxfish was only eating enriched mysis for about 2 weeks and was pretty thin, sides were noticeably pinched. we were feeding small amounts 6 times a day to fatten up and his appetite was voracious, but he didn't ever seem to fill out. he started eating seaweed off the clip about a week ago and since then eating no mysis. began to swell up slowly after the addition of CP. developed some "pustules" that look almost like blisters on its sides (like they're full of clear liquid). still swimming normally, but does not seem interested in food.
• other fish seem clear of ich but lemonpeel and boxfish are still heavily infested.]

 

[Humblefish]

@alg Never noticed edema, but there is some anecdotal evidence that CP lowers a fish's natural immune system and makes them more susceptible to bacterial infections. They say this about copper too. However, since a fish with a parasitic infestation is already predisposed to secondary bacterial infections, I don't see how to be certain unless somebody starts experiment with CP on known healthy fish...

Over the years I have successfully mixed CP with the following meds in powder form: praziquantel, metronidazole, nitrofurazone, kanamycin, erythromycin. I've never tried mixing it with Epsom salt, but I don't see that being issue. You just want to avoid mixing CP with any liquid medication that contains a solubilizing agent - like Prazipro. The resulting interaction can (but doesn't always) lead to a bacterial bloom.

It sounds like maybe the tang just bumped his eye. As for the boxfish, is it by any chance a deepwater species? I'm wondering if possibly it wasn't decompressed properly when collected. I know Aracanidae are deepwater boxfish, but I'm not sure if they are the only ones.

 

[alg]

EXTREMELY helpful -- thanks very much!!!!!

Interesting thought about the boxfish! This one is just a plain old ostracion meleagris, which I've seen on reefs so I don't believe they are deepwater.

Tried an Epsom salt bath last evening and this morning, and while I don't see improvement on the swelling I did see some long white feces in the tank this morning, so about 75% confident dealing with hexamita. I suspect the fish had the parasite (hence its general thinness), was able to keep it relatively in check, and then as you mentioned CP depressed the immune system, which allowed the parasite to multiply leading to bloat. I've started a course of General Cure, but since the fish has already stopped eating... well, we'll see how it goes!