Cleaning up the dirtiest tank ever...

[Myka]

So I have a tank maintenance company, and I came across "the dirtiest tank ever". The system was engulfed in cyano, hair algae, and dinoflagellates. Water column NO3 tested at about 750 ppm (tested by using 0.1 mL tank water and 0.9 mL new SW), and phosphate was 3.5 ppm. The nitrate is now 0.25-0.5 ppm and phosphate is about 0.2 ppm (still working to get it down lower). The tank housed a massive Snowflake Eel for a long time before it was removed and some other fish were added. The tank was fed clams on the half shell for years, and the tank didn't get any water changes (the half-full salt bucket was one of the old screw-lid Instant Ocean buckets). In the beginning I removed about 4 gallons worth of clam shells out of the sand. It was a long road, but it actually looks like a reef now with nice purple rocks.

What I'm concerned about is the massive amount of nutrients and the massive amount of clams fed to the tank - is there a possibility there are heavy metals in the tank from all the clams? I ask because I've lost a lot of inverts in this tank - snails, conchs, and urchins. If heavy metals are a possibility, what's the best way to assess? The owner added some corals to the tank early on (to my dismay), and to my surprise they mostly survived - Donut, Favites, some mushrooms, a Torch. I removed a few small predatory crabs awhile back, and haven't seen any shed exoskeletons since. I don't think it's a predator. The inverts that die I often find still in their shells or empty shells on the rocks, nothing gathered around a certain area or anything.

 

[d2mini]

Wow, I would have liked to see a before and after pic!
no3 and po4 look great now.
You could send a water sample off to Triton. That's probably your best bet to see if anything funky is going on with your water quality.

 

[Myka]

Wow, I would have liked to see a before and after pic!
no3 and po4 look great now.
You could send a water sample off to Triton. That's probably your best bet to see if anything funky is going on with your water quality.

I haven't taken a recent pic, but I will.

I was thinking about Triton, but I'm not sure if the LOD is usable for this scenario.

Here's a pic after the first half was already cleaned. Probably the best "before" pic I have. I really should have done a better photographic story of the tank.

 

[Oldude]

Maybe try Poly Filters - they are said to remove lots of stuff and will change colors when in contact with certain elements. At least you might know what you are dealing with. Here's a link with some info.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Poly_Fil...Media-Poly_Bio_Marine-PB1111-FIFMMEPM-vi.html

 

[Myka]

Maybe try Poly Filters - they are said to remove lots of stuff and will change colors when in contact with certain elements. At least you might know what you are dealing with. Here's a link with some info.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Poly_Fil...Media-Poly_Bio_Marine-PB1111-FIFMMEPM-vi.html

Well hello there! I was thinking about Poly Filter, or even Cuprisorb, but I think with PO4 still at 0.2 ppm they'd suck up phosphate before anything else wouldn't they? I think Triton makes a "detox" product too, but I don't know anything about it, yet.

 

[Adam Obenauf]

There is absolutely no reason to think that clams would contain heavy metal levels elevated high enough to cause problems. If you're introducing sensitive invertebrates and not seeing any issues then that would seem to indicate that nothing is elevated high enough to cause problems. If you're really that concerned though just do some water changes. It's the only reliable way to get the levels of every heavy metal down and not just some of them.

 

[Sabellafella]

So I have a tank maintenance company, and I came across "the dirtiest tank ever". The system was engulfed in cyano, hair algae, and dinoflagellates. Water column NO3 tested at about 750 ppm (tested by using 0.1 mL tank water and 0.9 mL new SW), and phosphate was 3.5 ppm. The nitrate is now 0.25-0.5 ppm and phosphate is about 0.2 ppm (still working to get it down lower). The tank housed a massive Snowflake Eel for a long time before it was removed and some other fish were added. The tank was fed clams on the half shell for years, and the tank didn't get any water changes (the half-full salt bucket was one of the old screw-lid Instant Ocean buckets). In the beginning I removed about 4 gallons worth of clam shells out of the sand. It was a long road, but it actually looks like a reef now with nice purple rocks.

What I'm concerned about is the massive amount of nutrients and the massive amount of clams fed to the tank - is there a possibility there are heavy metals in the tank from all the clams? I ask because I've lost a lot of inverts in this tank - snails, conchs, and urchins. If heavy metals are a possibility, what's the best way to assess? The owner added some corals to the tank early on (to my dismay), and to my surprise they mostly survived - Donut, Favites, some mushrooms, a Torch. I removed a few small predatory crabs awhile back, and haven't seen any shed exoskeletons since. I don't think it's a predator. The inverts that die I often find still in their shells or empty shells on the rocks, nothing gathered around a certain area or anything.

Id look into tlf metasorb with a polyfilter just incase, its a good thing to have on hand

 

[alan j t]

Looks really good. I have the same issue at work.i dont know where to start. We finally have a ro system hooked up, and so water changes is easier now.
How did you Clean the rock so good?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well hello there! I was thinking about Poly Filter, or even Cuprisorb, but I think with PO4 still at 0.2 ppm they'd suck up phosphate before anything else wouldn't they? I think Triton makes a "detox" product too, but I don't know anything about it, yet.

I don't think those bind appreciable inorganic phosphate. Most metal binding organics have a negative charge to them (but not all ) so those would not bind phosphate, and I'd be surprised if any organic polymers bound appreciable phosphate from seawater where competition with chloride and sulfate for binding sites is intense.

 

[Myka]

I don't think those bind appreciable inorganic phosphate. Most metal binding organics have a negative charge to them (but not all ) so those would not bind phosphate, and I'd be surprised if any organic polymers bound appreciable phosphate from seawater where competition with chloride and sulfate for binding sites is intense.

Thanks Randy. I was just reading the packaging and it says it binds phosphate, so I wasn't sure if it would just suck that up and be done. Do you think there is reason to believe there may be heavy metals in the tank? Would a Triton test be useful in this case at all?

 

[Myka]

Looks really good. I have the same issue at work.i dont know where to start. We finally have a ro system hooked up, and so water changes is easier now.
How did you Clean the rock so good?

Elbow grease.

There is absolutely no reason to think that clams would contain heavy metal levels elevated high enough to cause problems. If you're introducing sensitive invertebrates and not seeing any issues then that would seem to indicate that nothing is elevated high enough to cause problems. If you're really that concerned though just do some water changes. It's the only reliable way to get the levels of every heavy metal down and not just some of them.

Thank you for your reply, but did you read the whole post? Do a Google search of "heavy metals clams", and you'll understand why a person could have some concern when there have been a huge number of dead clams put into the tank, and there is now high mortality in sessile invertebrates. The snails, conchs, and urchins have been purchased at the same time as for other tanks, and introduced the same way as other tanks. The ones that go into this tank only have high mortality, and I'm trying to figure out why. Sure, there are some hardy corals doing ok in the tank, but that doesn't mean everything is peachy keen.

Id look into tlf metasorb with a polyfilter just incase, its a good thing to have on hand

I did put a Polyfilter in there awhile back and it was just light brown with organics. I could try it again. I have Cuprisorb on hand too which I haven't used yet.

 

[NeptuneGarden]

Time to send a water sample to Titon ?

 

[Myka]

Time to send a water sample to Titon ?

I am trying to get Randy to answer that question. I know the LOD of many of the ions that Triton tests for make those particular readings useless for our aquariums. I'm not going to waste $60 of my clients' money if the testing won't give me any usable results.

 

[NeptuneGarden]

LOD ?

 

[Myka]

and there is now high mortality in sessile invertebrates.

Oops, not sessiles, gastropods and echinoderms.

LOD ?

Limit of Detection. For example, if a test kit has a LOD of 5 ppm, anything below 5 ppm will read 0 ppm. That's why in the Triton test results there are a bunch of results that say 0.00 which just means that those ions are present in numbers lower than the detection limit of Triton, and some (many?) of these LOD are higher than NSW and/or toxicity. Don't confuse LOD with accuracy either, which is different. Triton is very useful for many reasons, but it isn't perfect.

I don't know the LOD compared to toxicity off-hand of all the ions that Triton tests for, so that's why I've been asking. I know the LOD for iron would be useful, and that is probably the most likely ion to be at toxic levels in this situation, but I am not totally sure.

Here's a link to the Triton LOD. http://www.triton-lab.de/fileadmin/user_upload/triton-lab/TRITON_LOD.pdf

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randy. I was just reading the packaging and it says it binds phosphate, so I wasn't sure if it would just suck that up and be done. Do you think there is reason to believe there may be heavy metals in the tank? Would a Triton test be useful in this case at all?

Which package? Some products may bind phosphate from fresh water, but a lot less or none in seawater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I really couldn't say whether metals might be a concern.

 

[Myka]

Which package? Some products may bind phosphate from fresh water, but a lot less or none in seawater.

The Boyd Poly Filter, "All forms of phosphates".

I really couldn't say whether metals might be a concern.

Ok, that's fair. Am I missing information for you? Or are you simply not familiar with the possible effects of a large number of "Clams on the Half Shell" could have? Given the information provided, do you think a Triton test may provide me with information to solve the problem? Eliminating predators and handling procedures, do you have any other ideas what may cause high mortality in gastropods? Elevated iron?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The Boyd Poly Filter, "All forms of phosphates".



Ok, that's fair. Am I missing information for you? Or are you simply not familiar with the possible effects of a large number of "Clams on the Half Shell" could have? Given the information provided, do you think a Triton test may provide me with information to solve the problem? Eliminating predators and handling procedures, do you have any other ideas what may cause high mortality in gastropods? Elevated iron?

The polyfilter won't bind inorganic P from seawater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Triton is a good way to diagnose an elevated metals problem. I just do not know if metals can become problematically high this way, or for that matter, how high is too high for most organisms.

Triton does not distinguish different elemental forms with different toxicity, so a firm good/bad cutoff is impossible, but way more than "normal" of a toxic metal is a warning sign.